Do you collect Compromise Coins™?

Longacre

I am basing this thread off of QDB’s nickel book, but it can apply to any series. In discussing with David Lange about the “horn problem” with grading Buffalo nickels, QDB quotes Lange as follows,

“The traditional criteria for grading a Buffalo nickel Very Fine include the presence of a fully visible horn. This would be okay if it were not for the fact that many Mint State coins of this type lack a fully visible horn! How do you grade a Buffalo nickel that is only lightly worn yet has little or no detail evident in the bison’s head? … The market-oriented approach employed by grading services such as NGC seeks to establish a coin’s relative worth when assigning a grade. In so doing, the coin’s overall wear and surface quality play an important role.

A Buffalo nickel that has only a touch of wear and retains most of its luster normally would be graded AU. Yet if it is so poorly struck that it displays the detail of a coin grading only Fine, it should not be called AU. Graders compromise by assigning a “net” grade of Extremely Fine or Very Fine that reflects its relative market value.

Collectors often have a difficult time rationalizing this practice and seldom understand how it works. If you’re uncomfortable with these “compromise coins”, hold out for a well struck coin for each date, one that began its existence with reasonably Full Details and is thus graded solely on the basis of wear.”


QDB then adds some commentary as follows: “…Let me ask you this: which would you prefer—a 1920-D nickel graded MS64 by NGC solely on the basis of wear because it is well struck, or one with the bison’s head weak and horn flat, but graded MS65 because of its relative worth?

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Does anyone here collect Compromise Coins™, or do you solely collect coins that are well struck, even though the grade on the slab might be slightly lower than a higher-graded-market-influenced-weakly-struck example of the same date?

tradedollarnut

Every coin is a compromise coin in one manner or another.

RYK

<< <i>Every coin is a compromise coin in one manner or another. >>



I am glad you said so. I was going to say that collecting southern gold is all about managing compromises, but you bailed me out with your blanket statement.

airplanenut

<< <i>Every coin is a compromise coin in one manner or another. >>

What compromise did you make, exactly, in buying that 1794 MS67BN cent?

Russ

<< <i><< Every coin is a compromise coin in one manner or another. >>

What compromise did you make, exactly, in buying that 1794 MS67BN cent? >>



He compromised his bank account.

Russ, NCNE

notwilight

<< <i>

<< <i><< Every coin is a compromise coin in one manner or another. >> What compromise did you make, exactly, in buying that 1794 MS67BN cent? >>

He compromised his bank account. Russ, NCNE >>



I'd have to compromise more than that!!!!

cladking

This is the inherant problem with the current grading system; you never know what
you're going to get. A VF might be a nice attractive coin with significant overall wear
or it might be an AU with little detail. Some people will find the AU coin far preferable
and some might find it wholly unacceptable even graded VF.

This problem is especially acute in all cu/ ni coinage because the metal is so hard and
wears the dies so quickly. Most of the pre-1973 quarters are so poorly struck that the
lettering merges with the rims even on uncirculated specimens. Technically if you sit
and rub the coin it will go directly from unc to AG without passing through any other
grades. This applies to nearly 90% of 1966 quarters.

Part of the problem is in defining the amount of specific detail remaining as the grade.
The horn on the buffalo works well because it's the highest part of the design. It's not
always the highest part as struck.

At least cu/ ni coins should be graded by the strike, die condition, and the amount of
wear. Uncs should also have a grade based on marking and preservation. A system
can be devised which is easily understood. Indeed, it's not really grading coins that is
so difficult, it's pricing them. The services could issue a "net grade" since this is what
many people want anyway, a price, or value.

With actual grades one would know what to expect. As time goes on strike character-
istics are likely to gain more importance in collectors' eyes since they impact so many
of the coins being made. As more people find an interest in cu/ni they probably will
find that what separates the wheat from the chaffe is frequently strike and die con-
dition.

These considerations apply to other metals as well but collectors are less concerned.
A startling gem silver coin from the early 19th century is still a startling gem whatever
condition the dies were in or how good a strike it was. Partly this is simply because
silver is so much more easily coined and most coins recieved a decent strike. There's
less reason to be concerned with strike at all when well made examples are relatively
common. It's generally wear and preservation which separates most older coins and
strike that separates the newer ones.

shirohniichan

Since I buy coins based on eye-appeal instead of technical grade, I avoid compromise coins that are technically one grade but look substantially lower due to poor strikes.

The worst example I saw of this was an 1875-CC double dime that ANACS correctly graded MS60. It was so poorly struck that most of LIBERTY on the shield did not show. It looked like a VF coin in terms of wear.

In such a case I'd rather save my money and buy a well-struck EF or AU coin.

ziggy29

If you mean "settle for less of a coin than I'd like to have" for a particular type, date or mint, yes. But there are certain overall quality standards I won't compromise much on, if at all.

If I can't afford or find a certain grade or grade range, I'm likely to "compromise" down a grade or two if it means finding a nice and affordable example. I won't "compromise" by buying a higher grade coin that's harshly cleaned or badly damaged.

I'll also "compromise" on buying an overgraded slab, as long as I like the coin and I think it's a fair price for the *coin* itself and I'm not paying much (if at all) for the overgraded plastic.

BECOKA

So are all of those moderns I keep buying a compromise to the high prices of attractive older pieces?

Interesting read.

ziggy29

<< <i>So are all of those moderns I keep buying a compromise to the high prices of attractive older pieces? >>

If you ae using them as a cheaper substitute for your first choice, then yes, I suppose they could be.

seatedcollector

"In such a case I'd rather save my money and buy a well-struck EF or AU coin"

depending on what type of coins you like, that wait may be a very long time. for some coin series, there are no strong stuck examples i may be a complete idiot but i just refuse to subscribe to the thinking that a weakly struck coin in AU is anything other than a weakly struck coin in AU its not a VF or an XF no more than a nicely struck AU being graded MS but then again i dont play the slab game, i buy what i like and i dont give two squirts of clownsauce what the slab says or if the coin will slab 55 58 61 or 1004 collecting coins should be enjoyable, not frustrating because a certain coin "didnt cross" or was body bagged, or may have possibly been cleaned 4000 years ago am i the only one that feels this way ?

BECOKA

<< <i>

<< <i>So are all of those moderns I keep buying a compromise to the high prices of attractive older pieces? >>

If you ae using them as a cheaper substitute for your first choice, then yes, I suppose they could be. >>



Yep, my first choice is look at nice examples from 1793 forward and the price point ends up being in the moderns.

Baley

Yes, for a collector on a budget, collecting early US quarters and half dollars by die variety and die state is an exercise in compromise.

Not just grading and pricing, which is an art form in itself when one must net various post-mint problems against the details grade and/or strike and die deterioration issues

But also in compromising eye appeal overall, versus the opportunity to even own some of the rarer varieties at all. (if I pass on this ugly coin, when will I get a shot at another, in any grade??)

shirohniichan

i buy what i like and i dont give two squirts of clownsauce what the slab says or if the coin will slab 55 58 61 or 1004

Yea, verily.

In my example, I chose not to pay near MS money for a weakly struck MS60 coin and instead bought a well-struck AU for less. I don't care what the technical grade is-- I want a coin with eye-appeal.