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Is this a chopmark?

bobkingbobking Posts: 66
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  • newbiecollectornewbiecollector Posts: 2,992
    Looks like a red X to meimage
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  • RickeRicke Posts: 677 ✭
    It doesn't look like a chopmark to me, Bob.

    Is there telling evidence on the reverse that indicates it has been counterpunched - any damage or flatness?
  • shirohniichanshirohniichan Posts: 4,992 ✭✭✭
    "Chopmark" is a term generally used for coins countermarked in China and its environs. "Shroff mark" is a term used for Indian and other coins.

    I've seen a number of coins with test marks that qualify as neither chopmarks nor shroff marks. Generally these are cuts or punches with a nail or other device that does not identify the marker. Chopmarks were designed to specifically identify the person or company marking the coin, thus showing who certified the coin as of good weight and fineness. Shroff marks are generally marks with a design, but I don't know if they identified the person or company who tested the coins.

    The mark you show may qualify as a shroff mark.
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  • bobkingbobking Posts: 66
    Thank you all! I thought "chopmark" was a term used for all private counterstamps. This is my first time finding a private counterstamp on a medieval German gold coin. I believe it's not a Chinese chopmark since Chinese didn't accept gold in trading. However, I think it should be dipper if it is a test mark.

    Chopmarks are very common on large silver coins circulated in China before 1911. Some chopmarks are Chinese characters or regular designs while most of chopmarks can not be identified. Someone told me that unidentifiable chopmarks were usually used to test coins. After 1911, new government issued uniform coinage (fat man) with dependable fineness and weight. Then Chinese punched chopmarks with ink instead of sharp device. New ink chopmarks were used to identify the company for accounting or other special use such as wedding.

    This is a Cologne goldgulden 1414-1463.
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  • bobkingbobking Posts: 66


    << <i>Looks like a red X to meimage >>



    I'm sorry, but I uploaded the image to this website. Try to refresh this webpage image
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  • bobkingbobking Posts: 66


    << <i>It doesn't look like a chopmark to me, Bob.

    Is there telling evidence on the reverse that indicates it has been counterpunched - any damage or flatness? >>



    Althou it is very thin, I don't find any evidence on the reverse. I guess the circle mark is not deep enough.
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  • bobkingbobking Posts: 66


    << <i>"Chopmark" is a term generally used for coins countermarked in China and its environs. "Shroff mark" is a term used for Indian and other coins.

    I've seen a number of coins with test marks that qualify as neither chopmarks nor shroff marks. Generally these are cuts or punches with a nail or other device that does not identify the marker. Chopmarks were designed to specifically identify the person or company marking the coin, thus showing who certified the coin as of good weight and fineness. Shroff marks are generally marks with a design, but I don't know if they identified the person or company who tested the coins.

    The mark you show may qualify as a shroff mark. >>




    I've seen many Chinese old silver coins with deep marks. I guess deep marks can test if a coin is silver clad or not.

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  • shirohniichanshirohniichan Posts: 4,992 ✭✭✭
    After 1911, new government issued uniform coinage (fat man) with dependable fineness and weight. Then Chinese punched chopmarks with ink instead of sharp device. New ink chopmarks were used to identify the company for accounting or other special use such as wedding.

    I collect chopmarked coins and have only a few with ink chops. I've yet to find an ink chop that was used to authenticate a coin's weight and fineness (as regular chops were used). One I have has a spiral pattern on it, another has a slogan of some kind (unfortunately not clean enough for me to be able to read the characters) and another with the double "happy" character on it. All three ink chops cover the entire side of the coins.

    Do you have a scan of an ink chop attesting to the host coin's value? If so, please post it so I can see what one looks like.

    The oldest coin I have with a shroff mark is a shekel of Tyre.
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    Obscurum per obscurius
  • bobkingbobking Posts: 66
    Double "happy" chopmark is for wedding.

    This is a "De" chopmark which means sainted.
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    This is a "Chang" chopmark which means prosperous.
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    This is a "Zhi" chopmark. I don't know what does it mean.
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    Both "De" and "Chang" are common in names of people and companies. But "Zhi" is uncommon in companies' names. I guess it identified the person who tested the coins.
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  • bobkingbobking Posts: 66


    << <i>The oldest coin I have with a shroff mark is a shekel of Tyre. >>



    I think shroff marks on ancients usually damage coins seriously.
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  • shirohniichanshirohniichan Posts: 4,992 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>The oldest coin I have with a shroff mark is a shekel of Tyre. >>



    I think shroff marks on ancients usually damage coins seriously. >>



    The one I have has tiny marks that look almost like miniature chopmarks.

    Thanks for the photos.

    I can read the character on the top coin ("toku" in Japanese), but I don't know the others.
    image
    Obscurum per obscurius
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