Coins - or con - of the Spanish main?
Michigan
Posts: 4,942 ✭
I don't know about you, but the sensation I get when holding genuine gold doubloons, silver reales or other coins salvaged from an ancient shipwreck is thrilling. History, tragedy, perhaps even piracy... right there in the palm of your hand!
It's an instant connection to everything we've ever read or seen about hunting for the sunken treasures of the Conquistadors and buccaneers. But it's just that same exhilaration that can sometimes make us unwitting victims.
I don't by any means consider myself an expert on coins. In fact, I don't even collect them. Yet due to my involvement in the interesting world of gold and precious jewels, these fascinating coins are often brought to me to be designed and mounted into some form of personal adornment. This can be anything from being added to a gentleman's money clip or designing a simple gold pendant to firmly hold the usually irregular shaped coin itself. I once crafted a ladies' pendant with a delicate octopus holding a Spanish "piece of eight" coin.
In my shop, time and again, an excited couple will present their "treasure coin" and ask me what I think it might be worth. Disappointed faces always stare back when I honestly reply, "I haven't a clue! Did you pay a lot, or did you pay a little?"
They then produce a fancy certificate of authenticity complete with an engraving of a sea-tossed galleon, serial numbers and a paragraph or two recounting how historic and rare their treasure coin is. The magnificent condition of their wreck relic is explained as well. There is usually just one problem: the coin is a modern replica.
They look real good. In fact, too good. There tends to be a little wear and tear when you spend a few centuries in salt water, yet the coin is in pristine condition. Further investigation under magnification will usually reveal that there are faint casting lines on the side of the coin, proving it's a fake.
I may not know a lot about coins, but I do know about precious metals and how the Spaniards "packaged" their New World wealth not only for shipment to the King's coffers in Madrid but for ready use in New and Old World commerce.
At first, gold from Mexico and silver from Peru were shipped in the form of ingots and bars. But by the late 1500s, mints had been established in the Spanish colonies to convert the precious metals into coins. As it was difficult and costly to make blank coins of a perfect round shape and thickness to be stamped, these were in fact crudely hand-stamped from irregular metal sheets of uneven thickness. As long as some part of the design showed and the "coin" was of standard weight, that was enough. Each coin's shape did not matter, as long as it was stamped adequately. These odd-shaped, or "cob" pieces, were the norm for over 200 years.
The point being that a casting seam running exactly around the middle of an irregular-shaped Spanish coin stamped out by hand with a hammer cannot be authentic. Not exactly the kind of news a recent couple in my shop wanted to hear. "How can that be? We have a documented certificate!" I explained that anybody can print up a fancy certificate to accommodate the illusion that your coin is genuine.
The bottom line, as it is in so many things, buyer beware!
For one genuine silver imitation coin from that most famous of all Spanish galleon wrecks - The Atocha - is worth maybe $100, this couple paid $1,200. Ouch! If you are afraid you may not like the answer, don't ask the question. Off they went running, hoping to cancel the transaction so they can return their bogus booty. Piracy is alive and well and living here in Southwest Florida.
As a postscript to this tale, another variation I've seen a lot uses the term "coin made from authentic Atocha silver." Interesting. And it's exactly the same shape, size and weight as the last Atocha coin I saw. (Remember no two authentic coins are ever alike!) What this means is it is also a cast copy from an original bar of silver recovered from the Spanish ship that sank off the Florida Keys on Sept. 6, 1622. The wreck was discovered - after decades of frustration and tragedy - by the Mel Fischer syndicate on July 20, 1985. And let's just say there was "a bit of controversy" on the authenticity of many of the treasure coins ultimately offered for sale by the salvage company. Many were not minted in the 1600s but cast from salvaged silver ingots "minted" (cast from an original) in the 1980s. While certainly cast from silver from the wreck, these treasure coins are not "cobs" or doubloons. You need to read the fine print very carefully.
Confused? So are most of the "experts" on Spanish coins.
Honestly, I tell people they are on their own when it comes to buying these highly popular coins. They do make great and fun jewelry, as long as you know in advance that they are either original coins or replicas. Once again, do your homework. Be comfortable with the integrity of the person you are plunking down your hard-earned greenbacks for shipwreck silver or gold coins. Make sure you can get a refund if you find the coins are deemed modern copies and they were advertised otherwise.
I'll admit it. I create and sell sterling copies of treasure coins for my customers. These are not made from ancient ingots but my own, fresh 2006 silver and then "antiqued" by leaving them in the Gulf for a few weeks. They look and feel authentic... and I have even fooled a few "experts" in fun. But they have all been sold with the customers knowing they are absolutely bogus. I even stamp the word "COPY" on them to prevent confusion.
One of the great things about living here on Marco is the thought that one day, you might actually find a real "piece of eight" washed up on the beach. Spanish wrecks are legendary in our waters... even Deltona took time out from building what became the Marriott to search for the wreck of a galleon reported to be some 200 feet off the big beach at Quinn's. If you ever are lucky enough to find something in the swirling tidal sands after a storm, come and see me. I'll make you a great pendant to hold it.
It's an instant connection to everything we've ever read or seen about hunting for the sunken treasures of the Conquistadors and buccaneers. But it's just that same exhilaration that can sometimes make us unwitting victims.
I don't by any means consider myself an expert on coins. In fact, I don't even collect them. Yet due to my involvement in the interesting world of gold and precious jewels, these fascinating coins are often brought to me to be designed and mounted into some form of personal adornment. This can be anything from being added to a gentleman's money clip or designing a simple gold pendant to firmly hold the usually irregular shaped coin itself. I once crafted a ladies' pendant with a delicate octopus holding a Spanish "piece of eight" coin.
In my shop, time and again, an excited couple will present their "treasure coin" and ask me what I think it might be worth. Disappointed faces always stare back when I honestly reply, "I haven't a clue! Did you pay a lot, or did you pay a little?"
They then produce a fancy certificate of authenticity complete with an engraving of a sea-tossed galleon, serial numbers and a paragraph or two recounting how historic and rare their treasure coin is. The magnificent condition of their wreck relic is explained as well. There is usually just one problem: the coin is a modern replica.
They look real good. In fact, too good. There tends to be a little wear and tear when you spend a few centuries in salt water, yet the coin is in pristine condition. Further investigation under magnification will usually reveal that there are faint casting lines on the side of the coin, proving it's a fake.
I may not know a lot about coins, but I do know about precious metals and how the Spaniards "packaged" their New World wealth not only for shipment to the King's coffers in Madrid but for ready use in New and Old World commerce.
At first, gold from Mexico and silver from Peru were shipped in the form of ingots and bars. But by the late 1500s, mints had been established in the Spanish colonies to convert the precious metals into coins. As it was difficult and costly to make blank coins of a perfect round shape and thickness to be stamped, these were in fact crudely hand-stamped from irregular metal sheets of uneven thickness. As long as some part of the design showed and the "coin" was of standard weight, that was enough. Each coin's shape did not matter, as long as it was stamped adequately. These odd-shaped, or "cob" pieces, were the norm for over 200 years.
The point being that a casting seam running exactly around the middle of an irregular-shaped Spanish coin stamped out by hand with a hammer cannot be authentic. Not exactly the kind of news a recent couple in my shop wanted to hear. "How can that be? We have a documented certificate!" I explained that anybody can print up a fancy certificate to accommodate the illusion that your coin is genuine.
The bottom line, as it is in so many things, buyer beware!
For one genuine silver imitation coin from that most famous of all Spanish galleon wrecks - The Atocha - is worth maybe $100, this couple paid $1,200. Ouch! If you are afraid you may not like the answer, don't ask the question. Off they went running, hoping to cancel the transaction so they can return their bogus booty. Piracy is alive and well and living here in Southwest Florida.
As a postscript to this tale, another variation I've seen a lot uses the term "coin made from authentic Atocha silver." Interesting. And it's exactly the same shape, size and weight as the last Atocha coin I saw. (Remember no two authentic coins are ever alike!) What this means is it is also a cast copy from an original bar of silver recovered from the Spanish ship that sank off the Florida Keys on Sept. 6, 1622. The wreck was discovered - after decades of frustration and tragedy - by the Mel Fischer syndicate on July 20, 1985. And let's just say there was "a bit of controversy" on the authenticity of many of the treasure coins ultimately offered for sale by the salvage company. Many were not minted in the 1600s but cast from salvaged silver ingots "minted" (cast from an original) in the 1980s. While certainly cast from silver from the wreck, these treasure coins are not "cobs" or doubloons. You need to read the fine print very carefully.
Confused? So are most of the "experts" on Spanish coins.
Honestly, I tell people they are on their own when it comes to buying these highly popular coins. They do make great and fun jewelry, as long as you know in advance that they are either original coins or replicas. Once again, do your homework. Be comfortable with the integrity of the person you are plunking down your hard-earned greenbacks for shipwreck silver or gold coins. Make sure you can get a refund if you find the coins are deemed modern copies and they were advertised otherwise.
I'll admit it. I create and sell sterling copies of treasure coins for my customers. These are not made from ancient ingots but my own, fresh 2006 silver and then "antiqued" by leaving them in the Gulf for a few weeks. They look and feel authentic... and I have even fooled a few "experts" in fun. But they have all been sold with the customers knowing they are absolutely bogus. I even stamp the word "COPY" on them to prevent confusion.
One of the great things about living here on Marco is the thought that one day, you might actually find a real "piece of eight" washed up on the beach. Spanish wrecks are legendary in our waters... even Deltona took time out from building what became the Marriott to search for the wreck of a galleon reported to be some 200 feet off the big beach at Quinn's. If you ever are lucky enough to find something in the swirling tidal sands after a storm, come and see me. I'll make you a great pendant to hold it.
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Comments
8 Reales Madness Collection
I wear it as a necklace every day and people ask me about it all the time! It's a great conversation starter. I then explain about my interests in history, archaeology and numismatics. I have had it for quite a long time, upwards of five years I should think. Now, that was a long while before I was interested in history, archaeology and numismatics and I can't even remember why I bought it. But I wear it all the time now.
I think that I used to think it was a real treasure coin. But when I found the COA I realized it was not.
It calls itself "Authentic Treasure of the Atocha" or something like that, so I can see where people (such as myself) could be confused.
-Amanda
I'm a YN working on a type set!
My Buffalo Nickel Website Home of the Quirky Buffaloes Collection!
Proud member of the CUFYNA
Another thing that is not clear is how much Atocha silver is in the replica. Perhaps it is 50% Atocha silver and 50% new silver, and perhaps it's only 10% Atocha silver. Who knows?
If I were to make a piece of jewelry or display one of these "coins", I'd prefer to have a copy (in case of damage, loss, or theft).
How much do the copies go for?
Obscurum per obscurius
Just a few weeks ago during to a visit to the Keys I stopped in a few shops to see what they might have. Most of these folks knew Mel just like I did, much better than I did even. And sure enough, the conversations taking place were the same as they were 30 yrs ago. The shop owners would be telling the tourists how rare & valuable the coins were. They had price tags of $1500, $1800 - some as high as $2500. And yet the most valuable coin I could find was actually worth about $250. In all cases I walked out shaking my head in disbelief.
One comment on your history though Michigan - the first coins struck at the Spanish colonial mints were not the crude cobs that most are familiar with. Yes they were hammered coins and they weren't as refined as the later milled coins. But for the most part they were round, quite flat, very evenly shaped and of a consistent weight.
The cobs came later when the silver finds increased and the amount of silver coming into the mints overhwelmed the mint's staff. At the same time the crown was demanding an ever faster turnover and transport to Spain. And in order to comply with the wishes of the crown and to move the silver out so that more might come in, the mints began a new practice. Instead of preparing pre-weighed planchets for striking they would take the loaf shaped ignots of silver, slice a piece of the end, strike it with the dies and then trim it to obtain the desired weight. This trimming is what created the crude cob shape and allowed the mints to turnover ever vaster quantities of silver for the crown and a return to Spain.