Evolution of collecting, getting back to basics?

2dueces · July 26, 2006 11:02AM

I was just thinking about collecting the other day and remembering how I did it as a kid in the mid 60's. Dont you remember sitting around with your buddies with card sprea out on the floor, and a handful in hand trading with each other? Hammering out deals for this card an I need that #. We didn't know a thing about centering ,condition, corners or as the big Auction Houses say dripping with gloss. We just wanted the card. I was sittnig there wondering how did I get from there, to this? Wanting the highest grade I can afford, PSA 8's blah, blah. Competion of the registry of auctions of e-bay. Gotta have the best. Crap ,wasn't putting a set together good enough? I'm going to sit back and do some hard thinking about persuing collecting this way. I am giving it some serious thought to say the heck with it and go back to collecting raw sets. Dinged corners, bad centering a crease here and there, who cares. Is this now where I become a true collector? Does this ring a bell for us older guys or am I just losing my mind? Just think of all the sets you could put together with all the cards that are out there that don't measure up for grading? And if value really doesn't matter, how cheaply this could be done. Opinions wanted, and maybe some prozac. Has anyone else converted back to the old days of collecting?

P.S. I did post this same on another board.

VintageJeff · July 26, 2006 11:06AM

Yeah i get like that sometimes til my cat or son come by and knocka stack of raw cards on the floor, or i spill on my desk and almost have a heart attack etc and then I understand why I have all these indestructable slabs laying around.

Stone193 · July 26, 2006 11:57AM

DoubleD

Going back to the "old" days may be like trying to make that proverbial u-turn back to virginity?

I wish we could.

To combat some of the angst that I used to feel. I have always collected modern cards - pulled from packs.

My favorite - is Topps Heritage.

Also, I have avoided competing with the registry and anything else that could turn more into work for me.

Back in the early 90s, I tried to "corner the market" on anything and everything that came my way.

What a mistake! I wish I had a plan. I wish I had stayed focused. I wish I had picked a couple of really good vintage sets and a few other areas and stuck with them.

Instead, I have a "mass" instead of a focused "collection" of stuff.

I have gotten my OCD behavior under control and will be focused in the future.

For me, in the future, I want to keep it simple, keep it focused, keep a plan, keep it under budget and most importantly keep it fun!

mike

eyebone · July 26, 2006 12:14PM

I collect raw sets; always have. Frankly I cannot afford to build a PSA 8 set. I have kicked around the idea of building smaller sets in PSA 5/6 grade but then figure why bother.

For my money a nice raw EX to EX-MT set is generally easy to put together and is great value.

Eyebone

BigRedMachine · July 26, 2006 12:23PM

I go back and forth. On one hand, I like my cards in a PSA slab so I know they are protected and hold a little value. On the other, I just like cards so I could care less.

Just as an example of how back and forth I go, I'm still working on the '55 all american set in psa 6 or better (a set I really can't afford but somehow try), but I still need four cards to complete a raw 1981 topps baseball card set. Or a few more to complete a 1986 topps baseball set. Or 9 cards to complete the '06 heritage set.

I like to collect psa graded cards of a few of my favorites, but also love to complete sets. I don't know which is more satisfying. And I don't have to chose. When you love to collect it's a whole different mindset.

shawn

yawie99 · July 26, 2006 12:25PM

<< Has anyone else converted back to the old days of collecting? >>

Yup, though you probably already knew that.

Do it!

tkd7 · July 26, 2006 12:49PM

I've found my postcard collecting to be a throwback to old time collecting. As you can see from the thread that I started, I've found it a great way to collect and not worry about grades. It doesn't seem like many people here get too excited about stuff other than cards, but I do.

As for cards, I collected a '55 Red Man set of grade PSA 5-8 and it was fun. I never set a goal to collect the top set, and I'm happy with what I have. Right now I'm finishing off a 1970 Kellogg's set that will probably be the lowest rated complete set on the registry. But I have a hard time telling PSA 8 from PSA 9 cards, so when I finish, I'll be happy (although I may submit my 8s to see how many bump to 9).

Anyway, its a hobby. Enjoy it how you want. And keep posting those postcards!

yankeeno7 · July 26, 2006 1:30PM

With the change in the hobby, I seemed to have had a difficult time going from having a massive collection down to a more focused one. Sounds pretty similar to Stone. Only in the last 2 years have I become more focused with a bit of "playing".

As far as going "back to basics" with raw, I am doing all the post war Yankees with a few prewar mixed in when I find them for the right price. 1959-1971 ExMt and better. Pre 1959 are all EX and better. I have enjoyed this little project a lot.

My other focus is autographed Perez Steele Great Moments (and the Celebration here and there also but not a focus). I only have 9 right now but continues to grow slowly. These are all PSA/DNA graded and slabbed.

I have also kept my raw sets from 1972-1997. Maybe one day I'll catch up on the Topps sets but not my focus.

Lastly are autographed cards. NOT on the stickers but on the cards.

Does this sound focused? mmmm...maybe, maybe not...but its as focused as I can be

My playing is opening packs here and there. Finding oddball things like Wire photos and negatives/slides...though its been a while since i have picked up any of that.

I have to say the raw Yankees cards and the Perez Steeles I am having the most fun with.

There you have it...my "not so focused" focus!

djspann · July 26, 2006 1:46PM

I didn't start collecting until 1983. I had a lot of fun trading and playing with my cards as a kid. I used to have something like mock football games with my friends with our cards. All of it involved a lot of handling and shuffling around, so it's disappointing now to look at my Marino/Elway RCs and see how beat up they are.

I've found, though, that I'm perfectly happy to have cards in the PSA 5 to 7 range (raw or slabbed), so that's where I sit. I'm forced to collect 3's and 4's in many sets that I like, just because it's too expensive otherwise, and you can find some nice looking graded 3's and 4's sometimes.

It's hard to go back and be satisfied with a beat up card now -- if I were interested in rebuilding my 1984 Topps FB, for instance, I'd definitely have a lot of upgrades to make. I guess my standards have changed, and I don't know if I can go back. It all depends for me -- for some sets, I'm satisfied just having a card, regardless of condition. In other sets, I like to have EX or better...

Doug

bbne1 · July 26, 2006 2:40PM

Yeah, I understand exactly what you're saying. So I haven't graded any of my cards, although I will submit some that would be "investments".

Doing this to the cards was also fun...

stevek · July 26, 2006 4:55PM

<< I was just thinking about collecting the other day and remembering how I did it as a kid in the mid 60's. Dont you remember sitting around with your buddies with card sprea out on the floor, and a handful in hand trading with each other? Hammering out deals for this card an I need that #. We didn't know a thing about centering ,condition, corners or as the big Auction Houses say dripping with gloss. We just wanted the card. I was sittnig there wondering how did I get from there, to this? Wanting the highest grade I can afford, PSA 8's blah, blah. Competion of the registry of auctions of e-bay. Gotta have the best. Crap ,wasn't putting a set together good enough? I'm going to sit back and do some hard thinking about persuing collecting this way. I am giving it some serious thought to say the heck with it and go back to collecting raw sets. Dinged corners, bad centering a crease here and there, who cares. Is this now where I become a true collector? Does this ring a bell for us older guys or am I just losing my mind? Just think of all the sets you could put together with all the cards that are out there that don't measure up for grading? And if value really doesn't matter, how cheaply this could be done. Opinions wanted, and maybe some prozac. Has anyone else converted back to the old days of collecting?

P.S. I did post this same on another board. >>

Yea, but even as a young kid growing up in Connecticut in the early 1960's, a Mantle card was "the" premium card and all Yankees cards were "worth more" than the other cards. You spent a nickel on a wax pack and hoped for some key cards. Yes centering didn't matter and as long as the card was in "decent" condition, whether it was a "10" type or a "6" type didn't matter either. A miscut card though was a garbage card with any player - even a Mantle.

So even as kids back then, there was still inherent value in our collections based on different factors. Perhaps the biggest value of all was quantity - the kid with the biggest stack of cards had bragging rights.

lostdart58 · July 26, 2006 8:26PM

Converting to my early days of collecting??

OH GOD NO!!!......................My earliest recollection of collecting would be spring of 1965........I would have been in the fourth grade.........at recess and lunch the baseball card "collectors" would show up for a round or two or three of card "flipping". ( my earliest taste of gambling also)...............I was a lousy gambler back then. ( I have gotten better as an adult)

....................needless to say, after starting the morning with a pile of cards..........I would always come home EMPTY HANDED!!!

Who hear knows what the game of "flipping" cards was all about???

................to this day I cry when I see a 1965 card.................I am crying right now.

eyebone · July 26, 2006 10:17PM

We used to flip them against the wall too, closest to the wall would win. Usually just two guys would compete, but sometimes there were more. Also used to play leaners, knockdown and special card--these games were real "tests of skill" and sometimes one could win a huge stack of cards as they were a bit less conventional than the traditional closest to the wall flipping.

When the bell rang to go back into school some guy would unfailing yell "scramble" and would take his stack of cards and fling them all in to the air, watching with amusement as others (like myself) ran around in circles trying to catch them as they fell from the heavens.

Ah, the memories......

Eyebone

itzagoner · July 26, 2006 11:01PM

i would sort my cards according to team, stacked neatly on the floor of my bedroom and play "Dice Baseball" with 'em, double sixes for a homer, snake eyes for a triple, etc, etc.....my uncle introduced me to APBA Baseball, which, for a strategy & stats nut like me, it was a perfect match, so i put the BB cards away....i created a league, kept stats & everything, always making certain that the Dodgers would win the WS.....now i kinda miss playing Dice Baseball and it would be rather awkward with these PSA holders all over the floor! perhaps i will take some surplus cards and start a Mendoza line league with guys who never made the bigs or flamed out quickly.....

stevek · July 26, 2006 11:30PM

<< Converting to my early days of collecting??

OH GOD NO!!!......................My earliest recollection of collecting would be spring of 1965........I would have been in the fourth grade.........at recess and lunch the baseball card "collectors" would show up for a round or two or three of card "flipping". ( my earliest taste of gambling also)...............I was a lousy gambler back then. ( I have gotten better as an adult)

....................needless to say, after starting the morning with a pile of cards..........I would always come home EMPTY HANDED!!!

Who hear knows what the game of "flipping" cards was all about???

................to this day I cry when I see a 1965 card.................I am crying right now.

>>

It was someone like me who won your cards. "Flipping" was usually a generic word for a variety of baseball card betting games. I am the best baseball card "flipper" that I have ever seen. - LOL

To this day, once a year or so when looking at my raw commons, I'll take one in VG condition and I can still from ten yards away throw that card almost everytime within an inch or closer to the wall. I won many, many thousands of cards this way. Many cards weren't won just with one at a time bets though..on one throw against the wall we would often bet five, ten or more cards based on that one throw. - LOL

You're right about the gambling aspect. Sort of like gambling on golf whereby it's purely a game of skill and the best players can and do win money. If Tiger Woods was a golf hustler, it wouldn't be gambling for him and flipping baseball cards wasn't a gamble for me. - LOL

PS: I attended Fitzpatrick grade school in NE Philly in 1965...if it was you I won cards from, then too bad!!!

Steve

fiveniner · July 26, 2006 11:51PM

I started collecting as a kid back in the Spring of 59 and you can say that I really never stopped as I would occasionally pick up cards here and there when I could find some around.In 1975 I got back to heavy collecting and havent stopped.I have put together many of the Post War sets till late 80s with an exception of a few.I have sold many along the way and my only remains are sets from 1948 to 1961 with only a few exeptions. These sets are all raw and will remain as such with the only exception being the 59 topps which I am converting to all PSA graded.I am at 90% as of now and after this project is over so is my purchasing of graded cards.59 is my most favorite and because of that I am in the process of completing it in PSA 6 or better which is within my financial means.It will not be prize beauty 8+ but a nice eye appealing solid set.Some of my raw sets may not be pretty but they are complete and have bought me much pleasure and adventure in putting them together and have had the opportunity to meet some fine TRUE HOBBYISTS.
The day day is going to come soon when its time to get rid of all these old boys with the exception of my old friend 1959 Topps.
I will enjoy this also as it will give me the opportunity to reaquaint myself with some of my old hobby freinds and meet new ones.

Dallas88 · July 26, 2006 11:57PM

Yep - I also cannot afford (well, yes I can) a set of PSA 8 or 9 Topps set.....too many other expenses with retirement, kids college, etc etc

I've gone back to the cheaper sets (Topps HTA boxes) and collecting with my kids. They love to sit around and group the cards.

I'll pickup the occasional auto, or PSA card, but not many....I'll leave that to the younger generation!

2dueces · July 27, 2006 1:16AM

Steve, LOL, I knew you had reverted back. It's possible that is what has put me in this frame of mind? I don't have to have the best of the best. I don't have to break the bank because I can't afford a PSA 9, but buy it anyways. I did a little experiment recently. Back in March I believe there was a thread about 60 Topps football and how under apprieciated they were. I started buying mid grade lots and some lesser and a few key cards here and there. I wound up with 127 of 132 cards 60+ doubles for a whopping $86 investment. Now is the set mint? Far from it, but there are no real dogs in it looking at it in a binder. Now on close inspection, thats a whole different case. But I found myself saying if I don't care, than who cares? I get to look through binders full of old football cards. I'm close to saying, the heck with it, just gimmie some mid grade raw and I'm happy.

grilloj39 · July 27, 2006 2:07AM

I agree it's hard to revert back to collecting in a more innocent fashion that brings back childhood memories in which raw was the only way to collect and condition was not really a concern. I do keep many of my vintage boxing sets raw and I strive to collect individual stars and HOFers in graded fashion.

What is helped me became more satisfied in the way I collect is to focus and limiting myself on what type of cards I am going to collect. I've sold off a lot of my hockey, football, and baseball to concentrate more on boxing. I do keep all my Red Sox baseball cards from the 1960s and 1970s and pick up a card here and there to slowly build up my collection, with my primary focus on vintage boxing.

I am still in the process of selling my hockey, and non Red-Sox baseball in my goal to remain more focused. I think it helps keeping me satisfied in the way I collect, and frees up more $$$ to buy more boxing cards.

zef204 · July 27, 2006 2:12AM

<< Yeah, I understand exactly what you're saying. So I haven't graded any of my cards, although I will submit some that would be "investments".

Doing this to the cards was also fun...

>>

I hope the "M" you cut out didn't come from a Mantle.

stevek · July 27, 2006 2:16AM

<< Steve, LOL, I knew you had reverted back. It's possible that is what has put me in this frame of mind? I don't have to have the best of the best. I don't have to break the bank because I can't afford a PSA 9, but buy it anyways. I did a little experiment recently. Back in March I believe there was a thread about 60 Topps football and how under apprieciated they were. I started buying mid grade lots and some lesser and a few key cards here and there. I wound up with 127 of 132 cards 60+ doubles for a whopping $86 investment. Now is the set mint? Far from it, but there are no real dogs in it looking at it in a binder. Now on close inspection, thats a whole different case. But I found myself saying if I don't care, than who cares? I get to look through binders full of old football cards. I'm close to saying, the heck with it, just gimmie some mid grade raw and I'm happy. >>

LOL - Yea I wish I hadn't been so good early at gambling...got me into some bad habits when trying to take on guys like Donald Trump at the AC casinos - LOL.

I always like these "nostalgia" type threads. And I basically agree with you about collecting. Certain things though I really "must have" in top condition but many other things just having them in any condition, except for poor, is suitable for me. Nothing wrong in my opinion with doing it any which way - I have a number of PSA graded cards but many more raw cards just loose or in albums. Whatever satisfies the collecting desires of an individual I think is the okay thing to do in what I feel is such a great hobby.

Steve

Stone193 · July 27, 2006 6:30AM

<< Yeah, I understand exactly what you're saying. So I haven't graded any of my cards, although I will submit some that would be "investments".

Doing this to the cards was also fun...

>>

Cool card!

I used to mutilate Red Sox and Yankee cards - one of my favorite - stick a pencil thru the middle and spin them like a cartwheel!

thanx for sharing
mike

Stone193 · July 27, 2006 6:33AM

<< 

<< I was just thinking about collecting the other day and remembering how I did it as a kid in the mid 60's. Dont you remember sitting around with your buddies with card sprea out on the floor, and a handful in hand trading with each other? Hammering out deals for this card an I need that #. We didn't know a thing about centering ,condition, corners or as the big Auction Houses say dripping with gloss. We just wanted the card. I was sittnig there wondering how did I get from there, to this? Wanting the highest grade I can afford, PSA 8's blah, blah. Competion of the registry of auctions of e-bay. Gotta have the best. Crap ,wasn't putting a set together good enough? I'm going to sit back and do some hard thinking about persuing collecting this way. I am giving it some serious thought to say the heck with it and go back to collecting raw sets. Dinged corners, bad centering a crease here and there, who cares. Is this now where I become a true collector? Does this ring a bell for us older guys or am I just losing my mind? Just think of all the sets you could put together with all the cards that are out there that don't measure up for grading? And if value really doesn't matter, how cheaply this could be done. Opinions wanted, and maybe some prozac. Has anyone else converted back to the old days of collecting?

P.S. I did post this same on another board. >>

Yea, but even as a young kid growing up in Connecticut in the early 1960's, a Mantle card was "the" premium card and all Yankees cards were "worth more" than the other cards. You spent a nickel on a wax pack and hoped for some key cards. Yes centering didn't matter and as long as the card was in "decent" condition, whether it was a "10" type or a "6" type didn't matter either. A miscut card though was a garbage card with any player - even a Mantle.

So even as kids back then, there was still inherent value in our collections based on different factors. Perhaps the biggest value of all was quantity - the kid with the biggest stack of cards had bragging rights.

>>

Wow - was that ever true Steve!

I was lucky also - my cousin lived in Boston and hated NY players - so we were match "trade" made in heaven!

One day a friend came over with his shoebox - laid it out on the bed and was so proud - then I showed him my sock drawer, then my underwear drawer and then one of the bottom drawers - all filled with cards!

I had bragging rights for a week!
thanx for sharing this - I don't think about this kind of stuff quite enough.
mike

Stone193 · July 27, 2006 6:35AM

<< We used to flip them against the wall too, closest to the wall would win. Usually just two guys would compete, but sometimes there were more. Also used to play leaners, knockdown and special card--these games were real "tests of skill" and sometimes one could win a huge stack of cards as they were a bit less conventional than the traditional closest to the wall flipping.

When the bell rang to go back into school some guy would unfailing yell "scramble" and would take his stack of cards and fling them all in to the air, watching with amusement as others (like myself) ran around in circles trying to catch them as they fell from the heavens.

Ah, the memories......

Eyebone >>

Leaner pays double!

mike

stevek · July 27, 2006 8:02AM

<< 

<< 

<< I was just thinking about collecting the other day and remembering how I did it as a kid in the mid 60's. Dont you remember sitting around with your buddies with card sprea out on the floor, and a handful in hand trading with each other? Hammering out deals for this card an I need that #. We didn't know a thing about centering ,condition, corners or as the big Auction Houses say dripping with gloss. We just wanted the card. I was sittnig there wondering how did I get from there, to this? Wanting the highest grade I can afford, PSA 8's blah, blah. Competion of the registry of auctions of e-bay. Gotta have the best. Crap ,wasn't putting a set together good enough? I'm going to sit back and do some hard thinking about persuing collecting this way. I am giving it some serious thought to say the heck with it and go back to collecting raw sets. Dinged corners, bad centering a crease here and there, who cares. Is this now where I become a true collector? Does this ring a bell for us older guys or am I just losing my mind? Just think of all the sets you could put together with all the cards that are out there that don't measure up for grading? And if value really doesn't matter, how cheaply this could be done. Opinions wanted, and maybe some prozac. Has anyone else converted back to the old days of collecting?

P.S. I did post this same on another board. >>

Yea, but even as a young kid growing up in Connecticut in the early 1960's, a Mantle card was "the" premium card and all Yankees cards were "worth more" than the other cards. You spent a nickel on a wax pack and hoped for some key cards. Yes centering didn't matter and as long as the card was in "decent" condition, whether it was a "10" type or a "6" type didn't matter either. A miscut card though was a garbage card with any player - even a Mantle.

So even as kids back then, there was still inherent value in our collections based on different factors. Perhaps the biggest value of all was quantity - the kid with the biggest stack of cards had bragging rights.

>>

Wow - was that ever true Steve!

I was lucky also - my cousin lived in Boston and hated NY players - so we were match "trade" made in heaven!

One day a friend came over with his shoebox - laid it out on the bed and was so proud - then I showed him my sock drawer, then my underwear drawer and then one of the bottom drawers - all filled with cards!

I had bragging rights for a week!
thanx for sharing this - I don't think about this kind of stuff quite enough.
mike >>

Mike - I lived in Connecticut before moving to Philly during the summer between 4th and 5th grade. Over the years I gradually became a full fledged Phillies fan but it took a number of years to get being a New York baseball fan out of my system. Just shows I guess what "imprinting ideas" as a child does - LOL

But the only reason I brought that up is because in Connecticut when I was growing up at that time, Yankees cards were golden - virtually nobody would flip them ever. I was also a Mets fan but since the Mets were so bad and didn't have any stars and were a new team, the neighborhood kids usually freely flipped Mets cards.

When I moved to Philly, the Yankees cards, except for a Mantle, meant nothing in Philly. Even Maris, Berra, Ford, etc., didn't mean anything. So when I came to Philly I was in my glory because the kids freely flipped their Yankees cards and I was happy to have them. I even traded many Phillies cards for Yankees cards. I literally gorged myself with Yankees cards - LOL. Sort of I guess like gorging oneself with lobster to the point of not needing to eat any more...I had so many Yankees cards. - LOL

Steve

theczar · July 27, 2006 8:09AM

you can still get psa 6's from the mid-60's for less than the price of grading. that is a bargain and better than raw.

detroitfan2 · July 27, 2006 8:14AM

2dueces,

Good topic!

I agree with a lot of your points about getting back to the basics. Nothing wrong with collecting a "beat-up" raw set at all. One thing I firmly believe in though: If your set requires a card (star card, high #, whatever) that sells for over $25 in the condition that you're looking for, I'd still lean towards purchasing it in a PSA holder. Certainly for cards over $100. To me, it give you the peace of mind that the card is authentic and also that it's accurately graded. And from what I can tell, it's really not going to cost you a whole lot more to buy it graded (again, if we're talking PSA 3/4/5 quality).

A couple of final thoughts: I also like graded cards because of the "archival" qualities. In fact, I have some sets that have true sentimental value to me that I'm thinking of having graded as a way to permanently and safely "store" the cards for generations to come. I will probably end up spending more to grade these sets than it would cost to build a higher quality set by buying the cards already graded, but for these specific sets, all I'm worried about is preserving them. This is a situation where I'd rather have the exact card that, for example, my father opened 50 years ago, carried around in his pocket, wrote on, and stashed away for a bunch of years then a higher quality example of the same card.

Not sure this makes any sense, but I believe you can get back to basics and still have use for a grading company.

Happy collecting,

Tom

GoRedbirdsGo · July 27, 2006 9:18AM

We always took a marker and/or pen and wrote our name or initials on the backs of the cards.

I've got about all the low number 72 and 73 Topps with DW or David W on the back. I've got a few with
my buddies initials on the back as well.

Then we played all star games, propping the cards up at their positions and flipping a marble at them.

As a result a bunch of old 60's and 70's HOF'ers have a big old crease right up the middle, from generating
maximum force to flip the marble out of the park.

2dueces · July 27, 2006 10:37AM

I agree that there is a place for graded cards. It's not like I'm going to free al the cards I have from their plastic prison. I just don't think that I care about the competion of having the very best of the best anymore. This may go for all years. I will still keep on buying graded T206's because I am assured they are real and not altered. (hopefully). But as far as starting any more graded sets, I seriously doubt that is going to happen. I'm also not saying that I won't buy a graded star card either. I just won't be breaking the bank for that PSA 9, when i can have the same card in a 6, if it presents itself well. A hairline crease, barely noticeabe could be in a 5 holder. How many guys have looked at their cards for submission and missed that crease. Card must look good enough to send in, so how bad could it really be? AS far protecting the mid grade raw cards? A binder should be good enough for them., just like it was before grading. I'm 5 cards short on my graded 63 Fleer FB set and when I finish it, it will be my last. With this perspective, I can put together some baseball sets from the late 60. I will still have all my 60's football sets, but wont be sending them in as I previously planned.

CDsNuts · July 27, 2006 11:04AM

The way I see it, grading was necessary as soon as people started selling mid-high dollar singles through the mail. If I say a card is Near Mint, you're not really sure what to expect. But when PSA says it's Near Mint, you have an idea of what the card is going to look like. I see grading only as a means to have consistency throughout the though-the-mail marketplace.

PSA took it a step further by having the registry where collector's could compete for the top spot, but really it's a gimmick that probably won't hold up over time as the guys with deep pockets rake in the awards and normal folks lose interest as the registry sets become saturated.

Personally, I like the cards in my collection to stay raw, but if I decide to sell something, I'll usually have it graded as it will fetch a higher price. As far as condition goes, I'm willing to go for the highest grade (in my standards) my budget allows because cards in good condition look better and are more fun to have. But the difference between having a PSA 9 card and a PSA 10 is very minimal in my estimation, so the huge prices PSA 10's fetch comparatively really don't make sense to me. If I have a 10 that I can sell for $500, and buy the same card in a 9 plus have $450 left over to buy other stuff, I see it as a no-brainer.

That's my take on the whole grading thing and how it's changed the hobby.

Lee

yawie99 · July 27, 2006 11:12AM

I hope I'm not some sort of anti-Pied Piper, leading you into hobby ruin, Joe.

Nah, the more I started thinking about my collection, the more I realized that grading - or perhaps more specifically, the tyranny of the Registry - was no longer adding to my enjoyment of the hobby. It's not a total waste, as I'll still probably prefer graded to raw if I'm buying stuff like Cobbs or Mattys, but for 95+ percent of my collection, it just isn't worth it.

And don't be afraid to buy raw, Joe. I've probably submitted a couple hundred prewar cards and figure only a half dozen or so have been rejected. And only one of those rejections came as a complete surprise: a recolored T205 Wildfire Schulte that I didn't think to look that closely at since I was only expecting a 1, or maybe a 2 if I was really lucky. In hindsight, what the hell was I doing submitting cards like that anyway?

2dueces · July 27, 2006 11:48AM

Steve, What you did started me thinking. At first I thought you had lost your mind. But for some reason, it all made sense to me, and I really enjoyed buying lots of cards no body really wanted. What a pleasant feeling to be all alone on a lot of 30 cards for $8. LOL. And I'm getting as much enjoyment out of them as I am my high graded stuff. After all it's still only cardboard any way you look at it. No more pressure, just an enjoyable hobby!! Who wooda thunk it?

Stone193 · July 27, 2006 2:06PM

<< I agree that there is a place for graded cards. It's not like I'm going to free al the cards I have from their plastic prison. I just don't think that I care about the competion of having the very best of the best anymore. This may go for all years. I will still keep on buying graded T206's because I am assured they are real and not altered. (hopefully). But as far as starting any more graded sets, I seriously doubt that is going to happen. I'm also not saying that I won't buy a graded star card either. I just won't be breaking the bank for that PSA 9, when i can have the same card in a 6, if it presents itself well. A hairline crease, barely noticeabe could be in a 5 holder. How many guys have looked at their cards for submission and missed that crease. Card must look good enough to send in, so how bad could it really be? AS far protecting the mid grade raw cards? A binder should be good enough for them., just like it was before grading. I'm 5 cards short on my graded 63 Fleer FB set and when I finish it, it will be my last. With this perspective, I can put together some baseball sets from the late 60. I will still have all my 60's football sets, but wont be sending them in as I previously planned. >>

DoubleD

I was just wondering - and this is not directed at you but more of a general question.

How many people got caught up with the registry thing and spent way more money than they can afford?

I mean, one of the people who comes to my office just got a new Mercedes 500S with competition package
and I have no idea what it costs but I know I will never be able to afford it - I would never conceive of trying to compete with a person like this.

But, how many people are somehow trying to compete with people that "can" afford the best of the best.

This can drive a stake in your heart and suck all the fun out of collecting.

I detect that's one good reason for getting back to basics.
I know it works for me.
mike

MajorDanby · July 28, 2006 1:40AM

grading has many important qualities. it equalizes the market, setting buyers on equal par with dealers (with the exception of outlier cases like WIWAG). it provides confidence in the worth, value and condition of the cards we purchase. it spawned internet selling. and it has decreased counterfeit fraud by ten fold.

but, there are also negatives, many of them stated above.

overall, i feel the positives outweight the negatives.

but, that shouldnt stop you from collecting a set raw.

2dueces · July 28, 2006 5:36AM

I didn't want this to be a graded or non graded debate. both have their places and some really good points are made for both. i'm just going to go back to the roots of collecting of the hobby and not worry about miniscule condition issues. Now, I'm not taking about cards ripped in half and rat bites on the corners. I'm just not going to care if the card would grade a 6,7,8,9 or 10. If it looks like a nice card I'm going to be happy. I'm remembering how we were as kids, exept I'm not going to put them in my bike spokes or tie rubber bands around them in a shoe box. Thanks to Steve we may have a revolution starting. Geez, maybe PSA might delete this thread if it gets too popular. Enjoy collecting everyone, I think I've found my focus.

Stone193 · July 28, 2006 7:13AM

<< , I think I've found my focus. >>

Congratulations!

I know I've enjoyed myself much more this year than the last two years.

I wish you the best and let us know how it's going?

Thanx for the thread - it's been enjoyable.
mike

bigfische · July 28, 2006 7:42AM

This is my first post here but i have been reading for the last month or so. I am 22 and collected cards in the early 90's and the my interest faded. I Recently came across some of my dad's 1969 topps baseball cards and have been putting together that set in raw only and that has me buying vintage cards for the first time in my life. I wasn't into collecting when the grading craze started and have not yet submitted any cards to any grading company(deciding between psa and sgc still). The way i see it is i am happy with the raw purchases i have made and do not feel the urge to get them graded except to protct them from wear. But i figure my screw down cases work just as well as a slab for now. Basically my point is I am very happy with my collecting in the raw form still because i was never really introduced to the grading services until now. It is much more cost effective to buy hice raw cards as opposed to nice graded cards so it fits my budget better as well. Buying raw defeinatley has advantages in the price factor but i guess if a couple of my key cards were ever submitted and turned out to be fakes and/or trimmed i might be singing a different tune but from the casual collector i see raw as the only way to go for now.

Stone193 · July 28, 2006 7:50AM

<< This is my first post here but i have been reading for the last month or so. I am 22 and collected cards in the early 90's and the my interest faded. I Recently came across some of my dad's 1969 topps baseball cards and have been putting together that set in raw only and that has me buying vintage cards for the first time in my life. I wasn't into collecting when the grading craze started and have not yet submitted any cards to any grading company(deciding between psa and sgc still). The way i see it is i am happy with the raw purchases i have made and do not feel the urge to get them graded except to protct them from wear. But i figure my screw down cases work just as well as a slab for now. Basically my point is I am very happy with my collecting in the raw form still because i was never really introduced to the grading services until now. It is much more cost effective to buy hice raw cards as opposed to nice graded cards so it fits my budget better as well. Buying raw defeinatley has advantages in the price factor but i guess if a couple of my key cards were ever submitted and turned out to be fakes and/or trimmed i might be singing a different tune but from the casual collector i see raw as the only way to go for now. >>

Welcome bigfische!

Graded or raw - the welcome is the same.

I hope you enjoy it here and make some friends along the way.

Don't be a stranger; shoes optional.
your friend
mike

MajorDanby · July 28, 2006 9:49AM

welcome aboard, bigfische. hope you continue posting.

buying raw isnt a bad thing. when you deal with known counterfeited, trimmed cards and/or cards that are steep enough in value (and rare enough in terms of scarcity) that potentially could be tampered with...grading is a good thing. as is also buying cards for the worth of their condition. with commons, the difference between prices of lower graded raw vs slabbed is likely minimum...but, when it comes to non commons, i feel (no real analysis done on this, just my own gut experience) graded cards are more accurately priced. dealers are in it for the money...their intent isnt necessarily to just help the collector complete a set, but to make some cash on top of it. grading equalizes the market in many ways and makes collectors know for sure that the price of the card matches the associated price of the condition of the card on the market.

Evolution of collecting, getting back to basics?

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