New Zealand; More coins bite the dust.
cladking
Posts: 28,701 ✭✭✭✭✭
New Zealand is being added to the continuing destruction of coins from the
latter half of the 20th century. Apparently all of the old coins except for the
dollar and two dollar coins are being withdrawn and destroyed.
In many cases the list of coins is populated by series which were totally ignored
when they were issued and then the entire population was destroyed after many
years of heavy circulation leaving very few coins and almost none uncirculated. In
this case there have been a few coins set aside by collectors and there have been
mint sets issued so none of these will be rare. This will tend to encourage an even
higher percentage of the coins to be turned in.
The extinction of modern coins occurs primarily because there is such limited interest.
The numbers and values of these coins is so low that normal attrition will make most
of the moderns much scarcer than most of the older coins in only a few decades.
latter half of the 20th century. Apparently all of the old coins except for the
dollar and two dollar coins are being withdrawn and destroyed.
In many cases the list of coins is populated by series which were totally ignored
when they were issued and then the entire population was destroyed after many
years of heavy circulation leaving very few coins and almost none uncirculated. In
this case there have been a few coins set aside by collectors and there have been
mint sets issued so none of these will be rare. This will tend to encourage an even
higher percentage of the coins to be turned in.
The extinction of modern coins occurs primarily because there is such limited interest.
The numbers and values of these coins is so low that normal attrition will make most
of the moderns much scarcer than most of the older coins in only a few decades.
Tempus fugit.
0
Comments
Are mint set coins different from circulation strike coins?
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<< <i>In this case there have been a few coins set aside by collectors and there have been mint sets issued so none of these will be rare. This will tend to encourage an even higher percentage of the coins to be turned in.
Are mint set coins different from circulation strike coins? >>
Interesting you should ask. The head of the biggest NZ coin collector organization made
a statement about ten years back that collectors are chasing common coins while the scarcest
coins in many generations are wearing away in circulation. He was referring primarily to the
fact that all the varieties were issued only to circulation but also to the fact that (like the US)
the mint set coins are, at least in a sense, different. The NZ mint set coins are very well made
and are much nicer than US mint sets. Most of these are nearly PL and very clean. While the
regular issue coins are nearly as good as our mint sets there is still a gulf between them. It's
not possible to state positively that any individual high grade coin is mint set or not but there
is little chance that the lower grade coins are mint set and no chance that the varieties are mint
set.
A lot of the mint sets had mintages of only 15,000 or so but this should be ample for the domes-
tic market. I don't have a good feel for the attrition on these in NZ but the prices have always
been low (even as low as about double face value). There is a fairly high attrition on NZ mint sets
in this country based on the number of singles seen for sale.
While none of the regular issues will be scarce, none are likely to be common either. (With the
possible exception of some of the early low denomination issues).
is little chance that the lower grade coins are mint set and no chance that the varieties are mint set.
Canada officially produced "prooflike" coins for collector sets from 1953. From 1949 the RCM accepted orders for year sets, and from then until 1952 individual sets could contain both regular circulation strikes and "prooflikes." They are not easy to distinguish as all were struck from chrome-plated dies that gave most coins a mirror finish. All were struck only once, also, though the prooflikes were supposedly struck on slower moving presses at higher pressure.
I haven't examined any high grade circulation strike NZ coins, so I thought I would ask about the differences. It sounds like it may be hard to distinguish them in some cases.
Obscurum per obscurius
to retrieve the metals and replacing them with nickel plated steel.
It's interesting to me since I've got some of the old circulated coins and am interested in repatriating
them. It's not worth the effort for the cents and nickels which can be scrapped out but it could be
many years until the dimes and quarters are worth more as metal.
<< <i>I have just recently started buying NZ coins, I did get the 2006 mint set and it is one of the best put together mint set I have seen looks very nice. Also liek said before the coins do look awhole lot nice then the ones the US put out. >>
Do they have a mirror, frosted, or satin finish?
Obscurum per obscurius
Some of the decimal dates may be tricky to find as well - in top grade (65 or better), particularly 1968-1981, when mint sets were not available.
Coins in British mint sets are clearly superior to their for-circulation bretheren.
I sent this thread to Martin Purdy, head of the NZ Numis Assoc. Thought you might like to see his comments.
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<< <i>Apparently all of the old coins except for the dollar and two dollar coins are being withdrawn and destroyed. >>
True, though bear in mind that collectors, dealers and individuals
are going to have lots of "old coins" lying around the place for a
very long time. 1c and 2c coins, withdrawn in 1990, are still very
common, though not really sought-after by date at the moment, so it
may turn out that some dates are harder to find than others.
<< <i>The extinction of modern coins occurs primarily because there is such limited interest. The numbers and values of these coins is so low that
>normal attrition will make most of the moderns much scarcer than most of the older coins in only a few decades. >>
Probably right, with the caveat as above.
<< <i>Are mint set coins different from circulation strike coins? >>
In many cases, yes, particularly 1971 and 1978-85. See my article in
the NZNJ (Dec 2004) on telling the different types of the 1980-85
coins apart - they're mentioned vaguely in Krause.
<< <i>Interesting you should ask. The head of the biggest NZ coin collector organization made a statement about ten years back that collectors are chasing common coins while the scarcest coins in many generations are wearing away in circulation. >>
Wonder if that was me? It's the sort of thing I might have put in
the Newsletter at some stage. Alistair Robb has made similar
comments over the years, advising collectors which coins they should
be putting aside. Trouble is, the market changes, hoards are
discovered, etc., which can completely change the scene. It's quite
right that hardly anyone is examining the coins in their pockets at
the moment, but the "official" sets are all selling well. The
extremely low mintage of recent official sets and individual coins
has certainly helped in that regard.
<< <i>and are much nicer than US mint sets. Most of these are nearly PL and very clean. While the regular issue coins are nearly as good as our mint sets there is still a gulf between them. It's not possible to state positively that any individual high grade coin is mint set or not but there is little chance that the lower grade coins are mint set and no chance that the varieties are mint set. >>
Some dealers actually break up the cheaper 1970s unc. sets to provide
individual date coins, particularly in cases where the date in
question was never released for circulation. Can't see why it
shouldn't happen for dates that aren't available in high grade either.
<< <i>I don't have a good feel for the attrition on these in NZ but the prices have always been low (even as low as about double face value). There is a fairly high attrition on NZ mint sets in this country based on the number of singles seen for sale. >>
Regardless of what the catalogues say, there is little secondary
market for most unc. and proof issues up to the mid-1990s. I usually
sell at about 80% of catalogue, and that isn't particularly
often. "Double face" sounds like a dealer's buying-in price rather
than retail, though.
<< <i>I haven't examined any high grade circulation strike NZ coins, so I thought I would ask about the differences. It sounds like it may be hard to distinguish them in some cases. >>
The differences are really only evident in the years listed above,
and have been written up in the numismatic press. I'm a bit dubious
about 1978 and 1979, as I'm writing from memory, but definitely 1971
and 1980-85 show clear differences between the circulation issues and
"mint/proof set" issues, since they were struck at different mints
from different dies. The portraits from 1983 to 1985 in particular
show vast differences. I'd need to check, but it's possible that in
other years, the circulation and "mint" issues were all struck at the
same mint, so there won't be any discernible differences. Room for
further research!
The Newsletter that's about to come out (part of a big posting with a
special Journal, etc.) contains a comment on chasing recent
dates. One thing that will happen is that some very recent coins
(2004/05 5c coin, for instance) probably won't even get to be issued
for circulation: I don't think they're around at all at the moment,
and the stocks will probably go straight from the bank vaults back to
the melters, so some "rarities" will be discovered there.
Another side effect is that we will have almost no "foreign" coins in
our change after October this year, so "change checking" may suffer
even further.
These are very interesting comments and there are a couple things I was not aware of, particularly
the differences in the early '80's coins.
I tried to find the article but it eluded me. I'm confident that it was the NZNA and the name Purdy is
familiar though I might have run into the name elsewhere. The comment is paraphrased since I haven't
read it in a few years. (it was probably Coin world)
At the risk of seeming to refute an expert it is typical for low denominations to have a much higher pro-
bability of escaping recalls. There is little cost to saving them for souvenirs and less reward to turn them
in. Large denominations usually won't be made scarce simply due to a recall because many will be inten-
tionally or inadvertantly saved but there is a very strong tendency for the survivors to be very similar to
the coins that were destroyed. In other words it won't be the nice XF and AU coins getting saved but a
cross section of what's in circulation. Recalls probably can capture up to about 98% for larger denomina-
tions but it's difficult to know since it's never known how many actually exist. 90% would probably be more
typical.
Please thank Mr Purdy for the information for me.
Hot off the press!
The Reserve Bank of NZ has just advised us that the bulk of the
mintage of "circulating" 2004 5c and 2005 10, 20 and 50c coins has
been consigned to be melted without even being issued for circulation.
The figures received from the Bank are as follows:
Date Denomination Number minted Total actually issued
2004 5c 15,000,000 32,000
2005 10c 2,000,000 16,000
2005 20c 4,000,000 12,000
2005 50c 1,000,000 12,800
These totals include the 5000 10, 20 and 50-cent coins that were
issued in the "Smaller change" packs issued in July 2006, so the
actual numbers available in circulation will be less than shown above.
These figures indicate that all four coins are much scarcer than the
1935 3d, for instance.
The writers have seen a few 2005-dated 50-cent pieces, and wonder
whether more may actually have been issued than the above figures
indicate, or whether the majority were issued in the Wellington
region. A small number of 2005 20c coins has been seen, and none at
all of the 2005 10c or 2004 5c as yet.
After 31 July, no more will be issued to circulation, and any coins
returned to banks will be consigned to be melted, so now is the time
to check your change and look for those rare dates, as they will be
even rarer after August.
The Society would be interested to hear from members how many of the
above dates they have managed to find, and in which parts of the
country. Please write or e-mail to the address above
(RNSNZ@yahoo.com) with details. All replies will be treated as
confidential and figures used for statistical purposes only.
Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand Inc.
(Including the Wellington Coin Club)
Great read on an unusual subject.
myEbay
DPOTD 3
Thanks Syracusian. It was Filam and Mr Purdy who did all the work and the RBNZ deserves an assist.
<< <i>DPOTD ? Wassat ?? >>
Darkside Post Of The Day
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Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>DPOTD >>
I almost didn't open this thread...glad I did.