Am I out of line?
incugator
Posts: 622
I purchased a lot of 9 Goudey's for 3 cards on Ebay. I was planning on getting 3 cards graded for my set and sell/trade the other 6. One of the 3 cards that I got graded came back as trimmed. It was listed as VG-EX. I contacted the seller who has a feedback of over 1000 on ebay. He says that is the risk I take for buying ungraded cards. I thought a credit or at least a grading refund was in line. Any thoughts?
-Ryan
0
Comments
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
However, The seller did make a mistake my giving his opinion regarding the condition of the cards. I did this one time and the buyer who bought the card disagreed with my opinion and filed a paypal chargeback. Even though I won the paypal case, I learned from my mistake and now will never give my opinion on any cards that I will accept paypal on. If potential buyers ask me to give my opinion regarding condition, I'll reply back and tell them that since I'm not a professional grader I will not give my opinion. I'll tell them to look at the scan and decide for themself. I'll also tell them that if condition is so important to them that they should spend the extra money required to buy a card already graded.
Rich
<< <i>What a ****! Well you could always get a group to buy the trimmed card try to make your money back.
I'm in for 20K!!!
You should put your top ten Rich'isms in a thread and link to the thread each time you reply to a post. That way you can just reply, "See # X, have a nice day!"
1. You are an idiot.
2. A seller should only leave feedback after feedback is received.
3. Start all auctions at the lowest price you are willing to accept for a card.
4. Blah, blah, blah....
I can guess your response 90% of the time before reading your reply.
<< <i>I think you're wrong.
However, The seller did make a mistake my giving his opinion regarding the condition of the cards. I did this one time and the buyer who bought the card disagreed with my opinion and filed a paypal chargeback. Even though I won the paypal case, I learned from my mistake and now will never give my opinion on any cards that I will accept paypal on. If potential buyers ask me to give my opinion regarding condition, I'll reply back and tell them that since I'm not a professional grader I will not give my opinion. I'll tell them to look at the scan and decide for themself. I'll also tell them that if condition is so important to them that they should spend the extra money required to buy a card already graded.
Rich >>
Yeah, just square up the one side.
In all seriousness we take our chances in buying raw on Ebay. I have been disappointed also and now buy only from dealers with a good return policy. Scans just can't give us a good idea of the true condition.
I am also buying SGCs at a lesser price to crack out and submit to PSA for a Registry set.
Keith
It's a good idea. I don't change my thinking too much and I'm not afraid to let others know exactly what I'm thinking regardless if it's bad or good. At least everyone knows how I stand on issues......Unlike Hillary Clinton who is afraid to tell what she is thinking or what she believes in.....I hate people like that!
Rich
It may well be trimmed, but it's possible it isn't. I'm sure we've all had cards come back "evid of trim" that weren't and graded next time thru- all in all, I'd rather see a grading company err on the side of caution.
I do avoid buying raw on ebay, or online anywhere, unless it's from someone I know. And in general if a seller has raw and graded there should be an obvious reason why he didn't grade out the raws.
There is one prominant dealer that has stated that if a card looks EXMt but is trimmed he feels it's OK to describe it as vg-ex. Trimming is basically a qualifier to him that downgrades 2 grades.
Vintage Jeff -
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
these minor controversies. Many folks would be satisfied just to be
assured that their item was "real."
Authentic/Altered-Trimmed
Authentic/Altered-Recolored
etc.
storm
I can imagine how that might be a bit of a tough call for the seller since the time limit of any stated return policy he may have is likely to have expired in time it took to submit the card, etc. But on the other hand, if I were the seller, I'd feel horrible for having sold someone a trimmed card, albeit accidentally, and I'd be concerned about developing a reputation for selling trimmed cards. Who knows if another of the seller's buyers won't have the same problem with another card from the same lot? As a seller, if you get more than one feedback with the word "trimmed" in it -- you've got real problems. If I were the seller, I'd refund your money in a heartbeat. Without a refund, as a buyer, I wouldn't be buying from this seller again.
issue a refund. But, he is not going to.
The new language at the last phase of listing some items is
beefed up to the point that the seller "promises eBay" that
"he knows" the item is real/authentic. That does not help
here because "real" is not at issue.
Maybe eBay should put language in the pre-listing pledge
for raw cards. "Not a fake and not altered, unless otherwise
described in the listing." Once the seller clicked "list," he would
be on the hook for a refund, if the "pledge" was false.
storm
I have sold several unauthenticated signatures/autos that
I knew were genuine. Some were expensive.
Here is the language I have used:
"If at anytime within 90-days of your receipt of this item, you are
informed by PSA that it is not genuine, you may return it to me
for a full refund of your purchase price. Any such returns must
include the original declination letter from PSA."
Never had one come back, and always sold on the first listing.
storm
<< <i>GOD how many trolls are in this thread?? >>
<< <i>one more now that you graced us with that gem of wisdom >>
now that dun make a lick a' sense??
'Know what I mean Vern?"
Naw
or monatanafan's female
Bedtime for montanafan and me too
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
<< <i> I think you're wrong. >>
Rich, in all due respect, this is my second disagreement with you this evening (see the kids going to college post). What is the idea behind wanting to leave some one holding the bag with a trimmed card? Of course you offer a refund.
1977 Topps Star Wars - "Space Swashbucklers"
My personal belief - if I were a dealer - and someone sent me back a handful of cards in their holder marked evid. of trim. from PSA, e.g., I would refund the money.
And throw in a few cards for all their trouble. Do that, and, potentially, you got a customer for life - the kind that would also frequent one's ebay store - if they had one.
The response - "chance one takes with raw" - is taking no responsibility for what one sells. Sorry, but I don't agree with the premise.
mike
If you bought a raw card at a show that you honestly believed wasn't trimmed or altered in any way, and then turned around and sold this card one ebay only to get an email from the buyer telling you that the card you sold him was deamed trimmed by PSA, would you really offer a refund to the buyer? How do you know that the buyer isn't purposely switching your card for a trimmed card? With this said, no way in hell would I offer a refund.
ps..I looked for the kids going to college post but for some reason I could not find it. "what was the title of the thread? Even though I doubt your reply would make me change my mind (I'm hard headed) about kids not being allowed to bust wax, I would like to see it anyway.
Rich
Each time I contacted the seller ( 4-6 weeks after the purchases) and all three were extremely accommodating to a full refund as long as I paid postege to return the card.
I think it is the right thing to do. If a seller feels otherwise, he should state something in the auction about final sales, etc...
It's sticky because the buyer doesn't know if the seller knew the card was trimmed; the seller doesn't know if the buyer is swapping a trimmed card for the unaltered card. The results from lack of a trusting relationship is the "chance one takes" when bidding on ebay.
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
I think since buyers of raw cards are often getting a sweet deal ($$) and hoping for a nice grade....you takes your chances and sometimes you get the bull and sometimes the bull gets you.
Not giving a refund makes sense &seems justifiable..., giving one however will make for a loyal customer.
<< <i>you mean besides those things you and your friends battle in your epic friday night dungeons and dragons games? >>
ripublicanmass is not a troll..
PA - nobody said he was, and i don't think he is... but he was the one calling people in this thread trolls, and not vice versa
<< <i>GOD how many trolls are in this thread??
PA - nobody said he was, and i don't think he is... but he was the one calling people in this thread trolls, and not vice versa
well, to answer his question.. 2, maybe 3..
<< <i>kids not being allowed to bust wax, I would like to see it anyway. >>
Rich
You must have had a "serious" childhood.
I want a child to have a "childhood" - have fun, makes friends, develop a wholesome personality and have normal children's experiences.
Magnanimously directing your child to sock all his allowance and paper route money into college is not my idea of a fun way to spend their money and have fun as a kid.
IMO, a college education is the responsibility of the parents - if they can afford it.
Sucking the life out of a child under the premise that they need to "prepare for the future" is a bit hardcore for me.
But what do I know - I barely got out of hi skool.
mike
It is not the parents responsibility to put their kids thru college. A parents responsibility is to make sure their kids are prepared for college. I don't see anything wrong with a parent giving SOME help financially, but the worse thing for a parent to do is to pay for the whole thing as this doesn't teach their children how to be responsible for themself.
I had a great childhood. I played baseball about everyday in the field across the street from my house, and it didn't cost a dime!
Busting wax is a form of gambling. With this said, why not just allow kids into Casinos? If they are not allowed to enter Casinos, I can't understand why they should be allowed to bust wax.
Rich
Times have changed. Todays kids are after inserts, autos, and game used cards. From what I've seen most of them get pissed off when they open a pack and see just plain common cards. Plus, the cost of packs today packs compared to when I was a kid are way higher (and it's not because of inflation). When I was a kid, all you that would come out of a pack were commons and because of that all packs were cheap.
The bottom line......
Busting wax is gambling just like gambling in a casino.
I agree that kids need to be taugh a lesson, but I don't agree that it has anything to do with gambling.
Rich
<< <i>I purchased a lot of 9 Goudey's for 3 cards on Ebay. I was planning on getting 3 cards graded for my set and sell/trade the other 6. One of the 3 cards that I got graded came back as trimmed. It was listed as VG-EX. I contacted the seller who has a feedback of over 1000 on ebay. He says that is the risk I take for buying ungraded cards. I thought a credit or at least a grading refund was in line. Any thoughts? >>
I always ask before I buy raw if the seller will issue a refund if the card is returned ungradeable. This came up with a card I was tracking in a Universal Rarities auction. They have an "all sales are final" policy so I asked about raw cards getting returned. They told me that a refund would be issued only if it was deemed "Evidence of Trimming." Made me feel alot better. I didn't win the Alcindor Rookie but I wouldn't even have bid otherwise.
Scott
T-205 Gold PSA 4 & up
1967 Topps BB PSA 8 & up
1975 Topps BB PSA 9 & up
1959 Topps FB PSA 8 & up
1976 Topps FB PSA 9 & up
1981 Topps FB PSA 10
1976-77 Topps BK PSA 9 & up
1988-89 Fleer BK PSA 10
3,000 Hit Club RC PSA 5 & Up
My Sets
<< <i>Busting wax is a form of gambling. With this said, why not just allow kids into Casinos? If they are not allowed to enter Casinos, I can't understand why they should be allowed to bust wax. >>
Rich
Your position on college can't be argued - it's your choice.
But, me paying for my son's education has nothing to do with responsibility. You teach your child responsibility when they utter their first words and the first time they don't pick up their room before going to bed.
When a teen goes off to college, gets good grades, makes the Dean's List, plays a sport - possibly - maybe even holding down a part-time job for extra cash - if that's not being responsible - relative to their position - I don't know what is.
Now to the hobby - it's your position that this is gambling and doesn't speak to the hobby at large and it's origins.
When I was a kid, one bought the pack of cards for the gum and the cards were a premium.
In a sense, hoping I get a Mantle card instead of my 5th Gino Cimoli is a gamble but not in the pejorative sense.
And the thing about casinos is a quantum leap IMO.
Baseball cards were for kids - and kids should have fun - lazy days of summer at the ball field - a bottle of pop with your best friend. Flipping, trading, cards jacked to the spokes of my bike - life was great.
There's plenty of time for serious things and responsibility IMO.
mike
I disagree with you regarding parents paying the whole college tuition for their kids. More than 50% of USA adults are in the red. Part of this is because kids do not learn at an early age that it is best to save and not squander money. If you give them everything they need financially when they are a kid, all you have is a spoiled kid who doesn't understand the value of a dollar. As an example, my wife and her sisters had their whole college tuition paid for and new cards handed to them during high school. Her parents are very well off (LARGE indoor swimming pool, saunas, wirlpools). She, her sisters, and some of the friends I had back during college that also had stuff handed to them on a silver platter were very very spoiled. Kids need to be taught that money doesn't grow on trees regardless of how much money their parents have.
Now, with regards to baseball cards, you hit it on the nose when you said that "baseball cards WERE for kids". I agree with that 100%. Cards were meant for kids at one time, but the time has changed.
Regarding gambling and casinos.....Can kids buy lottery tickets of any kind? As far as I know they can't buy them in MN. With this said, I'm not sure ehy they should be allowed to purchase a box of wax that cost $100. Heck, I've seen penny slot machines, five cent slot machines, and quarter slot machines at casinos, but I have not seen a pack of cards that costed 25 cents in many years. Maybe kids should be allowed to gamble at casinos, but they sure in the heck should not be allowed to waste $100 on a pack of cards!
Rich