This Cobb slab looks awfully frosted.

WinPitcher

Another switcheroo?


Remm the Brian48 Orr card and this same guy? Can anyone bring that thread back?


Thanks

Steve

shagrotn77

Looks OK to me.

poppie

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=461793&highlight_key=y&keyword1=orr This link gets to the board. I have no idea how to place the link in a board.

WinPitcher

Thanks Poppie

Steve


Shag you are not serious? You do not see the bottom of the slab and how frosty it appears?

calleocho

Its a psa 3...and the grade looks about right.

Unless the card is doctored or a fake ...which its not apparent on the scan. what would be the point of a switch?

Bosox1976

That's exactly the point of the switch. Turn a fake Cobb into a PSA cobb, regrade the original. 1+0=2. Bottom right corner definitely looks amiss.

JasP24

Its possible, but I have gotten cards back DIRECTLY from PSA with slight frost on one or more of the edges(Usually the right-side edge)...More than a frosted edge, I would be inspecting to see if the 2 small divets on the bottom corners were cracked or broken...More of a tell-tale sign to me, because like I said, you could get them directly from PSA with a frosted edge or 2 if the guy at PSA doing the seal didn't do a perfect job...But he's not going to crack or break the divets during the sealing process...

Jason

chaz43

It's fine.

phreakydancin

I guess it's possible, but if you were going to crack open a slab, wouldn't you scan it against a white background rather than black?

WinPitcher

My whole point here is that reputation is everything. This seller has sold a card that was switched before. Not sure if he did the switching or not. I have almost 1000 psa slabs and not one is frosted like that.


Steve

chaz43

C'mon Steve. Obviously you haven't cracked many PSA slabs. I have cracked a ton of them and it is very difficult to get the card out of there wihtout damaging it let alone trying to reinsert a dummy card back into a partially cracked slab. It is absolutely fine looking...stop worrying about it. chaz

WinPitcher

Obviously Chaz you are incorrect as usual. I have cracked many PSA slabs for raw sets. And when i do they FROST just like the Cobb appears.

Steve

chaz43

Look at the two bottom rectangular tabs at the base of the case, if they are clear (which they are) then you don't have a problem. Look along the bottom edge at an angle under a light with your magnifier and compare it to a regular looking slab and make sure bottom of slab is nice and smooth.....this should help. chaz

WinPitcher

Chaz

I am talking about the Cobb which I have pictured. How can you say that it is clear? How can you even ask me to hold it at an angle? I have cracked PSA slabs in half. From the point the crack is made it frosts. As I work up and out it does not. A person can do that, substitute a card and then 2 dabs of crazy glue later the slab is basically tight. Glue is not even needed as one mates to the other.

The frost remains.

JMO

Steve

bsfastball

looks good to me

chaz43

I know you are talking about the Cobb. Just making a few suggestions to help. chaz

FYS

With the Orr card, the buyer did not find evidence of a switch, but felt the card was overgraded. PSA said the card was switched and not overgraded. I was never convinced if PSA was unwilling to pay for a mistake or if the card was truly swapped.

ToppsCo1lector

It looks fine to me

Stone193

Hi Steve
I see the appearance of more frost but that's about all I can say.

I have no experience.

Have you contacted the seller?

mike

Ahmanfan

I too have gotten slabs back strait from psa that look worse than that...
JOhn

WinPitcher

With the Orr card, the buyer did not find evidence of a switch, but felt the card was overgraded.


With the Orr card the buyer had no reason to think it was switched at first. Yes, he felt it was overgraded. Not finding evidence while not looking for evidence is what happened. . If one reads the thread (all of them) one will see that the buyer did have some recervations with the cert from the beginning as it had a tear.

It sorta snowballed on him if I remm correctly. PSA found that the slab had been compromised and made the last seller of the card (the seller of this Cobb) refund the buyer.

While I am no PSA appologist as to the guarantee (or lack of one) I felt all along that the seller sold a compromised slab/cert/card. Who compromised it is anyones guess.

The Cobb card could be legit. It is being sold by the same guy that sold the Orr. IMO the case looks bad.

Steve

FYS

<< <i>PSA found that the slab had been compromised and made the last seller of the card (the seller of this Cobb) refund the buyer.

Steve >>



PSA made the seller refund the buyer? I would be interested in that part of the story. I would think they would have no legal recourse. All they can do is officially state in a letter that their expert opinion is that the slab was compromised. In fact, I think PSA and the buyer actually lost their case from a legal perspective, when they cracked the slab open without a third party witness.

In any case, I hope the Cobb is legit. As you know, the buyer is sort of a novice and I would hate for him to get burned with his first big Cobb purchase. I agree, the seller does cast some doubt (right or wrong?) following the Orr situation.

Boopotts

It just kills me to say this, but from my experience I have agree with Chaz (cough cough), as every slab I've ever cracked has really, really frosted-- I mean to the point where there just couldn't be any debate at all as to whether or not the slab was cracked. I kind of wish now that I had owned one of the tampered slabs from When It Was A Fraud at some point or another, just so I could know what they looked like... but if my experience is any indication of what slabs generally look like when they're cracked (and for all I know there are guys who can crack them with a lot more care and finesse than me) the odds of this being a bum slab are pretty slim.

FYS

<< <i>It just kills me to say this, but from my experience I have agree with Chaz (cough cough), as every slab I've ever cracked has really, really frosted-- I mean to the point where there just couldn't be any debate at all as to whether or not the slab was cracked. I kind of wish now that I had owned one of the tampered slabs from When It Was A Fraud at some point or another, just so I could know what they looked like... but if my experience is any indication of what slabs generally look like when they're cracked (and for all I know there are guys who can crack them with a lot more care and finesse than me) the odds of this being a bum slab are pretty slim. >>



The Fraud guys had there own slab sealer. So I think you simply can not tell on their slabs.

Boopotts

<< <i>

<< <i>It just kills me to say this, but from my experience I have agree with Chaz (cough cough), as every slab I've ever cracked has really, really frosted-- I mean to the point where there just couldn't be any debate at all as to whether or not the slab was cracked. I kind of wish now that I had owned one of the tampered slabs from When It Was A Fraud at some point or another, just so I could know what they looked like... but if my experience is any indication of what slabs generally look like when they're cracked (and for all I know there are guys who can crack them with a lot more care and finesse than me) the odds of this being a bum slab are pretty slim. >>



The Fraud guys had there own slab sealer. So I think you simply can not tell on their slabs. >>



Oh, really? I was under the impression is was just a Mom and Pop 'glue it back together' outfit. You mean they actually sprung for a sealer? And I assume, then, that they must have somehow gotten their hands on a bunch of fresh slab (i.e., unsealed) slab pieces as well?

chaz43

<< <i>It just kills me to say this, but from my experience I have agree with Chaz (cough cough), as every slab I've ever cracked has really, really frosted-- I mean to the point where there just couldn't be any debate at all as to whether or not the slab was cracked. I kind of wish now that I had owned one of the tampered slabs from When It Was A Fraud at some point or another, just so I could know what they looked like... but if my experience is any indication of what slabs generally look like when they're cracked (and for all I know there are guys who can crack them with a lot more care and finesse than me) the odds of this being a bum slab are pretty slim. >>





HA HA HA HA HA HA ..........you do have some brains!!!!! chaz

WinPitcher

IMO The bottom of a case can be compromised and only that area will frost.

Steve My mistake it was paypal that pressured the seller to refund the buyer. PSA did in fact find that the slab was compromised.

Steve

montanafan

ya know, at first it didn't, but i looked at it again and it does look a tad frosty at the bottom..... i took the liberty of blowing up and enhancing the image.. draw your own conclusions but to me it definitely looks frosty... particularly at the corners



the more i look at it the fishier it looks.. if you look closely there's two very faint marks on the plastic at either side, just inside the bottom edge, that also look quite suspicious.....

montanafan

if the seller was under suspicion of switching out cards before, and this looks frosty, and you can see unexplained (perhaps from a tool?) marks on bottom, then i think you are absolutely correct to be concerned.. can psa re-inspect the card and rule on this?

TrailerParkBoy

In all situations, you must listen to the immortal words of mr. johnnie cochran:

If in doubt, you must not shell out.

Brian48

I'm the one that got the Tampered Orr rookie from macattaq. I initially saw the frosting on the Orr, but thought it was OK since it didn't extend all the way around the card. Having cracked a few slabs myself, I knew it would be possible to switch out an entire card without doing more damage. I never thought about just switching out the flips though, which is what I suspect happened in my case. As much as it pains me to say, in macattaq's defense, I don't believe he was the one who did the tampering. I know of the seller in which he purchased it from a few months earlier and the card (and slab) was in the same exact condition during that transaction as well. What I do hold him responsible for, is that he probably knew of the issue and instead of doing the right thing, tried to sell off his problems on me. In my opinion, this makes him no different than the scum that did the tampering to begin with. When he whined and complained about me reporting this issue to PSA, and consequently them taking the card out of the "PSA 7" holder, I told him flat out that I was NOT going to let another suspect ORR float out into the market again so someone else can get screwed. The cycle ends with me

TomTim

UPDATE

I'm the one who bought the T206 Red Cobb.

There was some concern that the holder looked a bit "frosted" on the corners and the same seller had previously sold a tampered Orr rookie. As soon as I received it, I sent it to PSA to review. I went ahead and paid the review fee and asked them to 1) determine if it was a tampered holder and 2) while you're at it, could you bump this sweet card to a 4 (although once I received it, I agreed that it's a very nice 3)? Today I received the card back. The verdict:

Legit 3. They also pointed out the flaws that made it a 3.

Peace of mind cost me $50 bucks. But I'm still happy with the card and total

bsavage

Very Nice! Congrats!

WinPitcher

Great to hear, sorry if I caused you any undue stress. I felt it was better to be safe then sorry.

Steve

TomTim

No problem. If there was a problem with the holder, I would rather find out now than when/if I tried to sell it and was too late for any recourse.

TT

detroitfan2

TT, absolutely SWEET card. Congratulations.

If you're ever looking to get me a little something for Christmas, well look no further . . .

Stone193

Tom

Very nice card and I would be proud to have it in my collection.

Glad to hear it's a winner!

And, I believe, Steve just had your best interests at heart.

mike

HoofHearted

A beautiful I would be proud to own!

Congrats!