OT: China the ultimate demise of Ebay?
coinpictures
Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭
Just some random thoughts...
I've noticed that not only in the world coin categories, but in other areas as well, that it is becoming increasingly difficult to wade through all the frauds and fakes coming out of China. Take a browse through the new listings in world coins... Fake pandas by the ton with $1 BIN and $150 shipping.
This is disturbing on so many levels:
1. Finding legit merchandise becomes more time consuming and cumbersome for buyers.
2. Newbie/young collectors fall for the scams, get burned, and ultimately decide that coin collecting is not the hobby for them.
3. As a seller of legitimate coins and other merchandise, my listings (and those of similar ilk) get overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of the fraudsters.
4. Selling prices of fakes potentially drives down the prices realized for genuine items (good for knowledgeable buyers, bad for sellers).
5. The overall "trust factor", shaky as it is, will only go down.
What I don't understand is why Chinese sellers are allowed to list on U.S. Ebay. Same reason why I don't get why U.K. sellers can, or German, etc. Selling should be restricted to native countries. Why? As a buyer I can opt to (1) go to www.ebay.co.uk or www.ebay.cn if I so choose, or (2) select "Show items from other countries" if I wish to see merchandise from sellers outside of the U.S. But in my opinion, by default the listings should ONLY show merchandise from sellers from the same country/region. (perhaps I'm misunderstanding the way the categories and listings work, but frankly I'm tired of seeing certain categories dominated by overseas listings with either exorbitant shipping charges or outright fee avoidance).
To head things off at the pass from a seller's standpoint, I've disabled allowing buyers from Asia in my seller options, while expressly allowing Japan. This prevents buyers in North Korea, South Korea, Thailand, Viet Nam, etc. from buying from me, but those are high-risk countries anyway.
Of course this doesn't address wading through all the garbage as a buyer.
Sheer speculation, but I would guess that fraudulent items and listings from China outweigh legitimate ones by a 10:1 ratio, if not higher.
How can Ebay think this is good for business? The only logic I can come up with is to establish market presence, since final value fees and store fees are free for Chinese sellers (thanks for nothing, Ebay!).
Thoughts?
I've noticed that not only in the world coin categories, but in other areas as well, that it is becoming increasingly difficult to wade through all the frauds and fakes coming out of China. Take a browse through the new listings in world coins... Fake pandas by the ton with $1 BIN and $150 shipping.
This is disturbing on so many levels:
1. Finding legit merchandise becomes more time consuming and cumbersome for buyers.
2. Newbie/young collectors fall for the scams, get burned, and ultimately decide that coin collecting is not the hobby for them.
3. As a seller of legitimate coins and other merchandise, my listings (and those of similar ilk) get overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of the fraudsters.
4. Selling prices of fakes potentially drives down the prices realized for genuine items (good for knowledgeable buyers, bad for sellers).
5. The overall "trust factor", shaky as it is, will only go down.
What I don't understand is why Chinese sellers are allowed to list on U.S. Ebay. Same reason why I don't get why U.K. sellers can, or German, etc. Selling should be restricted to native countries. Why? As a buyer I can opt to (1) go to www.ebay.co.uk or www.ebay.cn if I so choose, or (2) select "Show items from other countries" if I wish to see merchandise from sellers outside of the U.S. But in my opinion, by default the listings should ONLY show merchandise from sellers from the same country/region. (perhaps I'm misunderstanding the way the categories and listings work, but frankly I'm tired of seeing certain categories dominated by overseas listings with either exorbitant shipping charges or outright fee avoidance).
To head things off at the pass from a seller's standpoint, I've disabled allowing buyers from Asia in my seller options, while expressly allowing Japan. This prevents buyers in North Korea, South Korea, Thailand, Viet Nam, etc. from buying from me, but those are high-risk countries anyway.
Of course this doesn't address wading through all the garbage as a buyer.
Sheer speculation, but I would guess that fraudulent items and listings from China outweigh legitimate ones by a 10:1 ratio, if not higher.
How can Ebay think this is good for business? The only logic I can come up with is to establish market presence, since final value fees and store fees are free for Chinese sellers (thanks for nothing, Ebay!).
Thoughts?
0
Comments
One of the TPGs or the ANA sponsors the new auction site with similar functionality/expectations as eBay. Anybody can register, but sellers must be ANA members (or NGC members/PCGS members, etc). Fee schedule would be similar to eBay.
eBay would continue to operate in its current mode, effectively becoming the auctionplace for "all other" numismatic crap. Think of it is the tier 1 auction company against eBay (all the stuff that cant make it into the tier 1 auction site). If you want to buy ACG coin slabs or other fly-by-night slabs, or even raw coins from China, go crazy on eBay. If you want to buy from legitimate dealers or collectors, use the "tier 1" auction site.
Obscurum per obscurius
PT BARNUM GOT IT RIGHT ( or was it W.C Feilds?)
A sucker born every minute
the_northern_trading_company
ace@airadv.net
<< <i>Another problem is that, as the US gets flooded with Chinese fakes, counterfeits will show up in more US eBay auctions. Some sellers will knowingly offer fakes, but others will sell coins they got on eBay without bothering to check their authenticity. >>
I completely agree with this, and I think that is potentially the largest risk factors.
The market does offer its share of red flags with chinese counterfeits, in that most go for absurdly low prices when compared with authentic examples that a potential 'new collector' can easily spot when searching to make a purchase. The experienced collectors will not generally bid on red flag auctions. This risk is greatly increased when fakes are then passed around, and then offered unknowingly for auction without the normal warning signs.
I disagree with the getting burned and deciding the hobby isn't for them. Personally, if you get burned by purchasing fakes, and you have the hobbyist in you, it will make people want to learn more on what they did wrong - and that will lead them to being more informed hobbyists in the future. Those that get burned and drop the hobby were probably not going to stick with it in the long run anyway. As it was once put to me - whether you buy reference books or make bad purchases, it's all education. Some is more expensive than others.
All collectors have made mistakes in the past which probably resulted in financial loss... If not resulting from counterfeits, then perhaps overgraded coins on the bourse floor, or overpriced examples graded accurately.
If it were easy, then everyone would do it - then my coins would cost me twice as much.
Considering there is no internet access allowed to citizens of communist North Korea (which is probably the most repressive police state on earth), I don't think you're losing any business.
Personally, I will occasionally LOOK at stuff on Ebay, but unless the seller is a member here, or I know him/her from past dealings, I will not even entertain the idea of bidding. I know several people who do the same thing, and eventually there will be a mass exodus from Ebay. Hopefully someone will come up better site on which to buy and sell.
My OmniCoin Collection
My BankNoteBank Collection
Tom, formerly in Albuquerque, NM.
Edited to add that I don't think we should be limited on ebay as to where we sell, nor where we buy from. Ultimately it's buyer beware. I don't worry about lower selling prices from Chinese fakes hurting the selling prices of legit. coins because many buyers are savvy enough to know the difference in what they're getting when the material is right. Those outrageous shipping charges are also enough to void an auction as it's a clear violation of ebay rules. As far as getting burned, well, who here didn't in the beginning? It's almost an unfortunate right of passage. Those of us whom are serious though learn from these mistakes and become experts in our fields. Those that don't, well? Perhaps the hobby was never meant for them.
Looking for alot of crap.
Herb
<< <i>Just some random thoughts...
What I don't understand is why Chinese sellers are allowed to list on U.S. Ebay. Same reason why I don't get why U.K. sellers can, or German, etc. Selling should be restricted to native countries. Why? As a buyer I can opt to (1) go to www.ebay.co.uk or www.ebay.cn if I so choose, or (2) select "Show items from other countries" if I wish to see merchandise from sellers outside of the U.S. But in my opinion, by default the listings should ONLY show merchandise from sellers from the same country/region. (perhaps I'm misunderstanding the way the categories and listings work, but frankly I'm tired of seeing certain categories dominated by overseas listings with either exorbitant shipping charges or outright fee avoidance).
Thoughts? >>
If you don't want to look through all the listings from foreign sellers, that option is given to you on each page.
Look on the left side, there is a section called "search options", and you can specify to only show listings from 1) United States, 2) North America, or 3) worldwide. These are the options given for US registered users. German users are given options of 1) Germany, 2) Europe, 3) worldwide, etc.
I'm afraid to be alive without being aware of it
Not all countries have ebay, and none of those that already exist can be compared to the original one. The success of ebay relies mainly on the fact that they managed to create a huge global marketplace where legit buyers and sellers from all over the world can do transactions more easily than anybody could have imagined a decade ago. Anybody can become an occasional temporary seller if he has something to offer, he doesn't necessarilly need to belong to organizations for this to be reliable. There is certainly a need for better measures against fraud that comes in various ways and forms and is constantly reinventing itself, and buyers' own awareness is as essential as anywhere else in life, but turning to xenophobia and limiting ebay to US residents only,would be IMHO a move in the wrong direction and ultimately the death of it.
myEbay
DPOTD 3
<< <i>This prevents buyers in North Korea, South Korea, Thailand, Viet Nam, etc. from buying from me, but those are high-risk countries anyway. >>
South Korea and Thailand are high risks? Have you had problems sending items there?
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
<< <i>Or....as a temporary bandaid (I am certain the wrong people would find ways around it), what if eBay worked with the ANA to allow members to cross-register their eBay ids with their CERTIFIED ANA number. Thus, I can choose to only search for auctions from members belonging to the ANA. The lowest common denominator would continue to exist on eBay, but perhaps it is a start. >>
If I were selling fakes by the gross, the cost of an ANA membership would just be a minor cost of doing business.
Of course, I am not a big buyer.
1-Dammit Boy Oct 14,2003
International Coins
"A work in progress"
Wayne
eBay registered name:
Hard_ Search (buyer/bidder, a small time seller)
e-mail: wayne.whatley@gmail.com