It's 1933: "All persons are hereby required to deliver all gold coin now owned by them."

RYK

"All persons are hereby required to deliver all gold coin now owned by them."

This executive order, known as the Gold Reserve Act, was issued by President Roosevelt on April 5, 1933, to be effective on May 1, 1933 and was to include all gold coin and bullion. Gold coins of numismatic value were specifically exempted, in large part due to the influence of William Woodin, Secretary of the Treasury and prominent numismatist.

Does anyone know how it was determined whether a coin was of numismatic value in 1933? For example, a 1928 MS $20 Saint certainly has some numismatic value in 2006, but was it considered to be of numismatic significance in 1933?

Cam40

but was it considered to be of numismatic significance in 1933?
.......no

Coinosaurus

I have about 500 pages of copies on my desk taken from the National Archives a couple weeks back. It details many, many Secret Service actions against gold hoarders in the 1930s.

My first take on is that the Secret Service really didn't know what constituted numismatic gold. Meaning that there was selective enforcement.

In some cases there was correspondence with the Mint to ask if such and such a coin was "numismatic".

In some cases citizens didn't know their rights and turned over numismatic gold at face value.

I'm going to classify all this material and write it up.......

Artist

My Grandma has taunted me my whole numismatic life about the box of gold coins she dutifully handed in back in 1933. To hear her tell it, gold coins in those days were often given as gifts, much the way crisp bills are inserted into cards with oval windows these days, but in a era where bank accounts were not Fedarally insured (to say the least,) people often kept such coins as a sort of savings acount. When FDR called them all in, my Grandma not only felt it was her patriotic obligation to comply with the law, but that failure to do so would result in 'worthless,' money in the days to come. In that repsect, I suspect that in 1933 a gold coin of numismatic value was defined as any coin which someone was willing to sacriice the face value of in order to retain.

Oldnewbie

<< <i>My Grandma has taunted me my whole numismatic life about the box of gold coins she dutifully handed in back in 1933. To hear her tell it, gold coins in those days were often given as gifts, much the way crisp bills are inserted into cards with oval windows these days, but in a era where bank accounts were not Fedarally insured (to say the least,) people often kept such coins as a sort of savings acount. When FDR called them all in, my Grandma not only felt it was her patriotic obligation to comply with the law, but that failure to do so would result in 'worthless,' money in the days to come. In that repsect, I suspect that in 1933 a gold coin of numismatic value was defined as any coin which someone was willing to sacriice the face value of in order to retain. >>



Thank you for that story. That just put it into perspective for me.

TwoSides2aCoin

I just know if I was alive back then, I'd be a lot older now.
How such a law could ever pass is beyond me. And how it could stay intact for all them years has me even more baffled. And the fact that Nixon could allow the GSA to sell coins at a premium was the worst travesty of justice to the American people since 1933. That hoard should have been part of a national lottery at face value to whoever wanted them. PERIOD. How can the goverment sell a silver dollar at spot price when the price of silver has nothing to do with the dollar amount of the coin ?

So, that brings me to now. It costs me one dollar and forty cents for every Sacagawea I buy, plus shipping. Go figure.

A forty percent mark up on money plus shipping. Now get this : I am buying DIRECT. I cut the middle man out . And if I want it in a canvas bag, they'll sell me an obsolete one for $8.95 plus $4.95 S&H. I think we got programmed into stupidity in this country, not patriotism.


Gold and silver have come a long way, huh ?
copper/nickel clad and zinc/copper/nickel/ manganese (brass) clad.
I don't think we are going to have to worry about any law recalling the Sacagaweas.... unless we find a better use for BRASS ... however, you are in luck, there is only a 35% mark-up on the Kennedy Halves and you can buy them DIRECT and cut out the middle man once again. Just imagine if they went to the Federal Reserve first. They would cost us 2 bucks at the bank.

Lakesammman

My relatives would have ignored the edict - my Dad was 16 and still plowing with a mule or ox team in Iowa - they were lucky to have food on the table. No gold to turn in.

My Grandfather retired in Elliott, Iowa. I bought this postcard for my father recently - will be giving it to him in June on his 90th, Lord willing. This guy didn't have any gold either.

Deadhorse

My Great Uncle who was quite a collector had been putting away gold goins in large quantities 15 years prior to that edict.

He laughed at it then and he laughed when Nixon reversed the laws. He really got happy when he sold out in the 79-80 run up.

Being remarkably spry for a man in his late 70's he then travelled the world for a while. Other than being shipped overseas to play war, that was the only time he had ever left his farms in Missouri.

Bear

Good heavens, do you think that the Government

will call in our zinc penneys and clad dollars?I ain't agonna

give it to them. Zinc is going up by the day.

Deadhorse

Back in those days, they didn't have the progressive tax scam in place. Today we are taxed to such high levels that confiscating all the gold in the country would just be a drop in the bucket compared to what the IRS shakes us down for.

MAD4MORGANS

<< <i>How can the goverment sell a silver dollar at spot price when the price of silver has nothing to do with the dollar amount of the coin ? >>



I guess Nixon's selling off the GSA Government Hoard of Silver Dollars set a precedent that silver coins were considered bullion therefore capable of being confiscated like gold was by the previous executive order.

The Government owns everything...we are naive if we think we own these commodities. We only get to play with the stuff for awhile.

roadrunner

Turning in gold to help the dollar not become worthless?

Actually just the opposite occured when your Grandmother turned in her gold......it was a major step towards making our money worthless in the long run. And when FDR devalued the dollar by over 60% by bumping the gold price to $35 a short time later, he did a double whammy on everyone by cutting the true value of their savings.

While a confiscation may not occur, I would imagine that at least a windfall profit tax would be applied to all sales of physical gold (and possibly gold shares).

roadrunner

Artist

<< <i>Actually just the opposite occured when your Grandmother turned in her gold......it was a major step towards making our money worthless in the long run. >>



Hindsight is 20/20. You're absolutely right - things did work out that way. However, at the time, my Grandma was absolutely concerned about getting stuck with money that would be illegal to own and spend.

RYK

This thread has strayed from my original question. I was interested if anyone knew the particulars of what constituted numismatic gold in this period, how collectors and the government interacted to set these parameters (if at all), and the like.

MrKelso

There were other reasons besides numismatics now that i look at it again,

Section 2. All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal Reserve bank or a branch or agency thereof or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates now owned by them or coming into their ownership on or before April 28, 1933, except the following:

(a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.

(b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100.00 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins.

(c) Gold coin and bullion earmarked or held in trust for a recognized foreign government or foreign central bank or the Bank for International Settlements.

(d) Gold coin and bullion licensed for the other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and gold bullion imported for the re-export or held pending action on applications for export license.

MAD4MORGANS

Finding specific examples will require more research to answer your question,

However here's the text of the Executive Order to start.

I believe it appears intentionally vague and left open for Government interpretation and determination of what constitutes "...and gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins."

I would like to research this quest further, but alas...I have to go to work.

Text of Executive Order

fivecents

It's 1933 and you must turn in all moderns, 1900 and up as they have NO numismatic value.