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ARE YOU PARANOID TO SEND COINS IN FOR GRADING ?

STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

I am because every time I grade a coin I seem to be wrong according to PCGS present standards.

Stewart

Comments

  • MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭
    I think, in retrospect, the current generation PCGS holders will be viewed in a similar light to the OGH, but I would stop short of paranioa...Mike
    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
  • longtimecollectorlongtimecollector Posts: 2,368 ✭
    PCGS is tighter than a frogs' sphincter.........
    NGC has been said to be too loose..........
    ANACS doesn't get any respect........
    ICG........ Who ???????
    The rest........ fuggedaboutit..........

    Time to learn how to grade for ourselves !!! image
    Cam-Slam 2-6-04
    3 "DAMMIT BOYS"
    4 "YOU SUCKS"
    Numerous POTD (But NONE officially recognized)
    Seated Halves are my specialty !
    Seated Half set by date/mm COMPLETE !
    Seated Half set by WB# - 289 down / 31 to go !!!!!
    (1) "Smoebody smack him" from CornCobWipe !
    IN MEMORY OF THE CUOF image
  • coinlieutenantcoinlieutenant Posts: 9,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lately it seems that way.

    I sent in two for regrade recently. I thought one had a slim chance of upgrading...the other I gave a much better chance. I should have cracked them but you have no idea what you are going to get back anymore!!

    They took VERY little time to get back to me, with the same grades of course, and 100$ less money in my pocket.

    J

    siliconvalleycoins.com

  • BruceswarBruceswar Posts: 2,869


    << <i>PCGS is tighter than a frogs' sphincter.........
    NGC has been said to be too loose..........
    ANACS doesn't get any respect........
    ICG........ Who ???????
    The rest........ fuggedaboutit..........

    Time to learn how to grade for ourselves !!! image >>



    Maybe NGC seems so lose becuase PCGS has tighted up so much. As for ANACS getting respect, they get my respect. More coins for me image
    The Bruce Lee Collection


    image
  • CalGoldCalGold Posts: 2,608 ✭✭
    People complained about grade flation and how "that's not the way coins were graded back in 89". But the dealer who make their money on upgrades were really counting on it. Can't blame them. Why make 15% or 20% on a mark up when you can make multiples on an upgrade.

    Maybe PCGS listened and did something about it. Now people are sending in coins, getting the results and saying, "wait a minute, what happened to the grade flation I was counting on"

    The problem with it for collectors is not that dealers aren't hitting home runs, that's their problem, its that there are coins like OGH DMPLs out there that wouldn't make the DMPL grade today but the prices are way up from what they were back in the green holder days. And since anyone can get a reholder for $5 the OGH DMPL coins will get reholdered, and everyone will cry out about how inconsistent PCGS is in its grading.

    In theory collectors should do well to buy newly made coins if they are tightly graded since those might get an upgrade if things losen up again one day. The catch is, and there is always a catch isn't there, you have to know how to grade to do that and you can't rely on the holder to know if its a newly made coin or just an old reholdered one.


    CG
  • 13PacesEast13PacesEast Posts: 712 ✭
    Why?

    Who's asking?

    know what you don't know.

    hi, i'm tom.

    i do not doctor coins like some who post in here.

  • joecheckjoecheck Posts: 533
    Now, that's sound advice even I can follow!image
    Joe
    CONECA #N-3446
  • TorinoCobra71TorinoCobra71 Posts: 8,052 ✭✭✭
    Used to be. Now I am used to it.

    TC71

    image
  • DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    Calgold, amen. Now's a good time to buy the fresh undergrades.
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
  • badgerbadger Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭
    I am ambivalent. Coins that I have sent recently need to be a grade and a half ahead to make the grade. But... the coins that I have already got in the collection seem to have more stable value since the pops are not increasing.

    Badger
    Collector of Modern Silver Proofs 1950-1964 -- PCGS Registry as Elite Cameo

    Link to 1950 - 1964 Proof Registry Set
    1938 - 1964 Proof Jeffersons w/ Varieties
  • JJMJJM Posts: 8,037 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I assumed everyone cracked out the coins before re-subbmitting ???....I would think that it would give it the best chance of upgrade....In a slab, i could see em flippin it aside and saying "re-slab it the same" we're in the weeds today , or screw it . Its friday !!!!
    👍BST's erickso1,cone10,MICHAELDIXON,TennesseeDave,p8nt,jmdm1194,RWW,robkool,Ahrensdad,Timbuk3,Downtown1974,bigjpst,mustanggt,Yorkshireman,idratherbgardening,SurfinxHI,derryb,masscrew,Walkerguy21D,MJ1927,sniocsu,Coll3tor,doubleeagle07,luciobar1980,PerryHall,SNMAM,mbcoin,liefgold,keyman64,maprince230,TorinoCobra71,RB1026,Weiss,LukeMarshall,Wingsrule,Silveryfire, pointfivezero,IKE1964,AL410, Tdec1000, AnkurJ,guitarwes,Type2,Bp777,jfoot113,JWP,mattniss,dantheman984,jclovescoins,Collectorcoins,Weather11am,Namvet69,kansasman,Bruce7789,ADG,Larrob37
  • Dave99BDave99B Posts: 8,559 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Frankly speaking, I worry little about the grade coming back. I worry much more about a fingerprint, or sneeze splatter…..

    Dave
    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
  • BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,960 ✭✭✭
    Nope, not paranoid.

    I sent in some for crossover from NGC and ANACS. ANACS crossed. Cracked out NGC coins and re-sent, I suspectd the NGC MS61 half eagle was AU55 and it came back AU58. I have about 1 in 10 NGC coins cross but the grades are usually within one of what I suspect.
  • jacktheknifejacktheknife Posts: 1,547 ✭



    Yep, I'm paranoid that I'll send in one of my precious coppers and it will come back with a big fingerprint on it!!image

    Jack


  • morgannut2morgannut2 Posts: 4,293 ✭
    Yes I am-- I have a box of raw Morgans that aren't going in for grading - What's the point in wasting all that money? The MS64's I might trade come back 63, and the shot 67's come back MS65. And forget about taking a DMPL out of a PCGS holder and getting it back DMPL from PCGS--They're all PL's these days.image
    morgannut2
  • max911max911 Posts: 72
    I have respect for PCGS but just too concerned about their stiffer grading to send coins at this time. My next submission is ready to go to NCG. Wish me luck.

    image
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,097 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My most recent submission had 4 raw Morgan lower grade toners that were cracked out of NGC slabs along with smoe other coins. 3 crossed and one bumped. I hope they show up here tomorrow.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,424 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I am because every time I grade a coin I seem to be wrong according to PCGS present standards.

    Stewart >>



    PCGS put the 14D you graded by a picture in a slab with the exact grade you said it would be. That was two months ago. Have they changed since then ? Better yet maybe you should take pictures of your coins and then grade them.

    Ken
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,697 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have been satisfied with the grades I have been recieving, and yes they have tightened, but they needed too. I too would be more worried about damage or loss to an irreplacebale coin than the grade recieved.

    Here's the problem: the past few years in a booming market the grading services loosened up, became less strict, whatever you want to call it, etc. After several years of this many folks became accustomed to the way the grading services were grading coins, thier grading eye adjusted to this standard, and many people who were good graders made plenty of money cracking & submitting. Now services have tightened back up and some of those same folks who had been accustomed or trained to the previous standard are lost and confused?

  • DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭


    << <i>I have been satisfied with the grades I have been recieving, and yes they have tightened, but they needed too. I too would be more worried about damage or loss to an irreplacebale coin than the grade recieved.

    Here's the problem: the past few years in a booming market the grading services loosened up, became less strict, whatever you want to call it, etc. After several years of this many folks became accustomed to the way the grading services were grading coins, thier grading eye adjusted to this standard, and many people who were good graders made plenty of money cracking & submitting. Now services have tightened back up and some of those same folks who had been accustomed or trained to the previous standard are lost and confused? >>



    Hmmm......OK, but how would you feel if the same coin was given grades ranging from PR61 to PR65 along with designations of DCAM, CAM and no CAM?

    How about if you had a couple of those and we're talking about coins that, if given the concensus grade of several professionals would have considerable value, but you simply can't get them in a slab that is reasonably close to what they are?

    Before you say, go across the street, understand that that is now where they are entombed. I'd much rather have them in a PCGS slab and I've invested plenty trying to get them there. It's not just the tightness or undergrading, and it often seems that that's the way it is these days, it's the absurd inconsistency.
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,402 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Have always been too paranoid to do it raw.
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am because every time I grade a coin I seem to be wrong according to PCGS present standards.

    Sheesh, Stewart - you'd think you'd have learned to grade by now! image
    Early Dollar Set
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,661 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I know what my coins grade according to PCGS's conservative standards.
    I don't need to pay fees for grading opinions plus shipping both ways, plus wait for it all to happen
    only to have to crack it back out again to enjoy the coin..

    I'd call it, not paranoia, but "rather spend the additional money on more coins"

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • RBinTexRBinTex Posts: 4,328 ✭
    I almost always get it right. I guess the grade PCGS will assign & in a statistically randomly distributed way, the grades assigned are as predicted. Some higher, some lower, & some the same.

    Sorta like throming darts blindfolded. image

    But seriously, I just got a PCI F15 1866 Indian FS-007.6 to upgrade IN THE HOLDER to PCGS XF40 LINK image Hands down the biggest jump EVER in my personal experiance - 5 grades/25 points image
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,404 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've been a bit disappointed, Stewart. Not because of them, but because of me. I thought I had coins that were worth having encapsulated and I thought the US MINT made better than MS65/66 coins and I thought my eyes were better than they are.
    In addition to that, the value of them is not increased at all by being slabbed in most instances, while most do not bring even 30% of price guide values with regard to moderns.
    My fault, my lesson, my loss.

    I am not paranoid, I just have other places to spend my money
    ... like a teenaged daughter with a japanese car in need of repair.

    I got seven or eight blue boxes full of coins that ain't worth much, I know that !
  • dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭


    << <i>I am because every time I grade a coin I seem to be wrong according to PCGS present standards.

    Stewart >>







    LOLOLOLOL, pffff, what standards?? Good one! image
  • ccexccex Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭
    OK, PCGS grading is getting tighter/tougher. This just tells me that the market is going down.
    "Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity" - Hanlon's Razor
  • UncleWigglyUncleWiggly Posts: 2,467
    I wouldn't of been until I read all the comments here. What Laura said hit me like a ton of bricks.



    Jerry
  • BoomBoom Posts: 10,165 ✭


    Why should I waste money just to receive grades that insult and infuriate me? If I want to subject myself to frustration I'll just go out and play a round of Golf. image
    Boom's Retired Registry Set & Boom's Retired Variety Set
    image
  • STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭

    Hello People - The reason I am paranoid is because I grade ms 65,ms 66,ms 67 and I use to grade ms 68's.There has to be more screening of coins today BOTH BEFORE AND AFTER HOLDERING THAN EVER BEFORE and the result is I never get my grades.Yes,I buy raw coins and I like original toned coins with their original skin intact.PCGS seems to like CLEAN COINS and they even grade em dipped and stripped.I can't stand to own or even look at dipped and stripped coins.

    And I even believe the graders are paranoid about giving me a grade.I guess BIG BROTHER is watching.

    Hi Ken - I guessed the grade higher than most if I remember correctly.Yes PCGS seems to overgrade circulated coins because there isn't as much price difference as grading a 1914 D VF 30 instead of VF 20.Try getting a PCGS ms 65 red 14 D to go ms 66 red.

    Lakesamman - I thought you bought RAW at the last Stacks sale ?

    Bruce - I have not yet learned how to grade Jack.

    Stewart
  • lloydmincylloydmincy Posts: 1,861 ✭
    Stewart:

    You're giving me a headache. We went over this issue A THOUSAND TIMES during our "trip". It should be a lot of common sense to those out there, and then there is the "hand-shaking" or "gift-giving" or "I know someone on the inside" deals. But the main truth to this issue is a few pointers:

    1) PCGS doesnt GAIN anything personally by upgrading a coin, and then everyone complaining it is not labled correctly, and then having to buy it back or get involved with some kind of guarantee. Why should they care if someone is getting a big upgrade (unless there is the three " " I stated above).

    2) If there was TRUE consistency and correct grading, then a coin that has been submitted 10 times for an upgrade and doesn't get it, restores to me faith in the grading system. But, I have seen too many coins go up two or three grades as time goes on. This is B***S***.

    Lastly, Stewart, you are a great grader (from what I've heard), but isn't it safe to say:

    3) Most everyone feels the coins they have should be graded higher?image

    Stewart, about you and your coins, I wish I could say what I have said to YOU, but I will keep my mouth shut here, or anywhere!!!image

    I have answers for your problems, Stewart, but I can't post them here. PCGS will boot me.
    The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith

    image
  • seanqseanq Posts: 8,687 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>
    I have answers for your problems, Stewart, but I can't post them here. PCGS will boot me. >>




    That's what sock puppets are for. image


    Sean Reynolds
    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stewart:

    I appreciate your comments and it really sounds as like an endorsement of an Original Surfaces designation that should be used by TPG... I continue to advocate this and while there seems to be interest among collectors, that interest still has not caught the attention of decision makers at PCGS, NGC, ANACS and ICG.



    That thread afew weeks ago in connection with the 1871-CC Dollar that was cracked out of an ANACS VF30 NET GRADE, then dipped and graded VF30 by PCGS is perhaps one of the saddest threads I have read and offers one of the more compelling reasons as to why such a designation is necesssary.

    I will be blunt... I would be pretty angry if I had a nice original VF30 1871-CC Dollar in a PCGS VF30 holder knowing that a coin like that was slabbed the same grade... there is simply no excuse for this.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

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