Why is NGC preferred over ANACS?

BigBen

I'm curious, because it appears that NGC has a reputation for overgrading and having lots of difficulties crossing over to PCGS, whereas ANACS seems to be fairly consistent and most coins cross to PCGS? I'm trying to decide where to send in some of my coins right now and the only reason I would consider NGC is higher sell value vs ANACS, but they are more expensive and I don't care for their holders. I recently got back two coins in the new ANACS holders and the more I see them the more I like them. I have some coins that I bought in old PCI, NGC, and PCGS, but the new ANACS holder is really growing on me in the way it displays the coin compared to the rest. I am considering splitting my submissions between PCGS and ANACS right now, sending in coins to PCGS that I want to sell faster and the rest to ANACS and wait until the market becomes more friendly to ANACS (I can't force competition and change unless I support someone other than PCGS or NGC). Thoughts anyone? Has anyone had the new holders for a while and changed their mind about its appearance?

BECOKA

My main collection is in PCGS holders. I like simplicty in organizing my coins so PCGS is it but not because they are the best. For anything that does not belong in my collection I prefer ANACS much more than NGC. At least in the past and hopefully after the move is done ANACS service is much better. 9 times out of 10 when I do an ANACS crossover to PCGS the coin crosses at the same grade, at least for gold. I am shooting less than 50% for NGC and for the most part when I see an AU58 gold coin from NGC it really lacks the details and should be AU53/AU55.

To make a long story short, if I had to choose another service other than PCGS my choice is ANACS all the way. I can not think of one reason I would choose NGC. Another plus is ANACS is not bias toward problem coins so they can be much more honest on borderline items and still slab them.

UncleWiggly

Some times I wonder if NGC isn't still running on the umph left behind by the people that started the company. I do like to have copper in their slabs simply for the cosmetic look.. White around brown.



Jerry

BigBen

I've got a 1934 P Lincoln in NGC MS-66 Red but I'm just not that crazy about the holder. I listened to alot of hype around here regarding the "ugly" new ANACS holders and I have to say that after owning them, I just don't see it. I find the new ANACS holders to be attractive and well designed, and think they enhance the coins appearance. I see it all the time where something new and different comes out and people scoff at it until it sinks in a bit. I'll even go out on a limb and say that the new ANACS holder is THE most attractive and balanced holder of the TGPs right now, and after some more time more people will agree with this statement. The other thing is, ANACS is cheap compared to NGC, another big plus. The only way the "market" will accept ANACS is if WE accept ANACS, because we ARE the "market". If enough of us demand ANACS coins from dealers, then dealers will start raising their prices on ANACS slabs. Those of us who bought ANACS will be rewarded with market acceptance. If ANACS had their own "registery" it would greatly increase their ability to compete with PCGS.

secondrepublic

ANA lets its members submit directly to NGC.

mcheath

thats funny i was just thinking how i liked the ANACS holders old and the new too.
As far as NGC selling price is about the only thing i prefer over ANACS

ziggy29

<< <i>Some times I wonder if NGC isn't still running on the umph left behind by the people that started the company. I do like to have copper in their slabs simply for the cosmetic look.. White around brown. >>

But boy, is that ever a terrible combination to try to get a good image of the coin...

tradedollarnut

NGC is a fine company and far superior to the old ANACS. As of yet, no one really knows what the new ANACS is all about.

pharmer

Ben, might also depend on what you're submitting. If you mean some of those nice wheats you hope to get 67 on, go PCGS. Check out the prices realized difference between PCGS and the others in the Heritage and Teletrade archives.

Burks

<< <i> As of yet, no one really knows what the new ANACS is all about. >>



PF63 PL

What's with all the smeared ink on the new labels? Did someone forget to tell them ink doesn't dry instantly?

Nice grading too. PF63 PL.

Edit: not my coin btw.

AZLARRY

1. There own registry
2. Certification verification via the web
3. Population reports via the web
4. Selling prices higher than ANACS
5. Many rarities in NGC holders
6. NCS

I like ANACS, hope they can improve their market share, but they are not number two yet.

BigBen

Hi Pharmer, yes, the price differences are big for PCGS vs ANACS. Regarding my wheats, I have 2 qualms about PCGS right now- 1) After looking at tons of PCGS wheats, it appears that PCGS in very inconsistent with it's grading, and also will NOT give a 67 according to grading rules, but only if they perceive the market to allow it. 2) PCGS is simply expensive, and considering how inconsistent they will grade a wheat, this could cost me mega bucks considering how many 64, 65, 66, and possible 67s I have (several hundred!). Right now I'm a bit "gun shy" of PCGS because I don't think I will get a fair shake, whereas ANACS has nothing to prove other than good grading, and I can cross over key dates like the 1954 "P" if 65 or higher. I was told by one forum member here in a private message that they submitted a 50s wheat 10 times before grading 67!!!! Good grief, what the hell is up with PCGS grading standards? I don't care what the excuse is, that is just ridiculous and I don't want to contribute to the coffers of "ReSubPGCS", where the "resub" stands for lots of free money Can anybody give me some positive experiences with PCGS and high grade modern wheats in the last 6 months? If so please enlighten because I'm becoming a bit cynical of the process and the money involved........

BigBen

Hi Burks, I looked at the link and it's obvious that ANACS did a rush job on the holder. I guess they screwed that one up but I'll bet they make up for it with good customer service. As for the grade, without seeing it in person I can't say for sure that the grade is accurate, but I do see what appears to be a proof-like surface. I have an ANACS (old holder) MS-65 Wisconsin Low Leaf Quarter that I think is graded dead on, as well as a Morgan and an FBL 1950 Franklin that I thought was dead on. I don't want to get into a "Chevy vs Ford" and "my brother is tougher than your brother" routine here, but only look at the merits of each company. I just noticed that NGC has certain benefits that ANACS doesn't have, so that answers some of my questions. If ANACS were to equal or exceed those benefits then ANACS would probably swallow up NGC's market fairly quickly.

AgMe

Grading is something of an art and standards vary with time, however I would rank the services as follows:

PCGS (yeah they grade conservative, but you'll get more money for the grade)
NGC (what's up with all the new PR70 coins?)
ICG (yeah I said it, but be wary of MS/PR 65+ grades)
ANACS (maybe co-3rd place????)

None of these apply to early copper, EAC rules the roost on that one and they grade "old school".

While you may "make the grade" in another TPG, you're not going to get PCGS pricing... something to think about.

Either way... I still need to see any coin "in hand", slabbed or not.

~g

BAJJERFAN

NGC has a registry AND they have boxes to hold their slabbed coins as well as slabs from other TPG's. ANACS has neither. Not the best reasons of course but better than nothing.

BigBen

ANACS advertises slab boxes on their website, though I'm not sure about it holding other slabs. As for PCGS, it's not that they're conservative, it's that they're not consistent, as when they grade an MS-66 coin MS-64 10 times in a row and then put 64s in 65 PQ holders, it get's very strange. As for the selling points, PCGS wins, but I will always lose if I don't support a viable alternative. Growing pains are tough, but the end results will be better in the long run for all of us if competition is allowed to flourish. Don't like PCGS' customer service? Then don't support them if you can afford not to, or start putting some of your money into a competitor. Eventually PCGS will get the message and alter their business practices or be knocked out of the top spot. We have to start somewhere.......

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>As for PCGS, it's not that they're conservative, it's that they're not consistent, as when they grade an MS-66 coin MS-64 10 times in a row and then put 64s in 65 PQ holders, it get's very strange. As for the selling points, PCGS wins, but I will always lose if I don't support a >>



Do you think that people send more of the tougher call coins to PCGS and thus the appearance of inconsistency AND most of the no brainer coins to the other TPG's?

Russellhome

ANACS accepts submissions from anyone - others require membership or submitting through an authorized dealer. ANACS is the variety slabbing king. NGC and PCGS make a subjective call on what they consider a 'major' variety and will not attribute the rest. ANACS is the only place that is doing the 2005 5c DDOs, for example - and the slabbed version of these nickel DDOs have done much better in ANACS holders than they have being sold as raw coins (e.g. well worth the slabbing fee for MS65+ coins).

I have a few of the new ANACS slabs and I do like them -- except that they tend to show dust, scratches, and fingerprints more than the white holders did. So, I will treat them very gently to keep them looking nice. If you send in 20 or more coins in one order, you will get a 'free' 25 count case designed for the new slabs. You can also order them for $6 each.

ANACS is not really up to speed on their web site. It is pretty much just info. You cannot check the status of your order or look up population reports. They sell their population reports - but I am not a dealer and I don't care about it that much to pay $25 for the info. I'd like to see them make this info available on-line and free to their customers.

Since I use ANACS in order to get my variety coins slabbed, I'm hoping they will get their act together and get the recognition they deserve. After all, isn't an accurate grade the primary purpose of getting a coin slabbed? I didn't read here where anyone knocked ANACS for their grading ability.

badger

I like ANACS Jeffs. They seem to be conservatively graded more consistently than PCGS or NGC.

Badger

PerryHall

<< <i>I like ANACS Jeffs. They seem to be conservatively graded more consistently than PCGS or NGC.

Badger >>



That's been my experience with US gold coins. ANACS is the most under-rated of the top tier TPGS's.

pontiacinf

buy the coin, not the plastic

I really like jefferys in segs holders, have found many
properly graded varieties and real nice full step examples
in segs slabs

Burks

I'm not doubting ANACS grading ability one bit. The grades are normally right on with a few exceptions (just like any TPG). ANACS is the company I like to stick with since I'm a buyer and not a seller. I put trust in the coins being graded accurately because as we all know pictures can lie and be changed. Have not been disappointed one time.

What I don't like is how sloppy they are. If we are paying decent money to have the coins graded, they least they can do is not smear the ink and make the insert a horror to look at. It may be a trivial thing that really shouldn't matter to most but it is distracting.

The labeling error is just a rush job or someone being careless. Again, mistakes happen even at the professional level. Maybe they should hire someone to double check the double checkers? Did I mention I'm an unemployed college student with loans to pay off?

MORGANHUNTER2

Anacs over NGC- prefer an honest grade to hype.
The only thing that I see going for NGC is NCS if the coin in question has a problem with age- send it have them conserve properly- send it back to me and I'll decide who to send for grade.

PCGS knows they have been inconsistent in grading over the last 5 years, but they don't hype on the tele, do they have a better product? at times yes.

Will they ever become consistent in grading- probably not- but we keep going after the plastic- for that potential up money.

Bajjer had it in his sig line for a long time- pLASTIC- it adds a little and forgives alot.

and the old premise- buy the damn coin not the holder.

Myqqy

I've always liked anacs coins over ngc when it comes to proof jeffersons and proof franklins, modern proofs in general, as well as morgans.....

relayer

NGC's grade and authenticity guarantee is backed by $$$

ANACS will correct their miskates free of charge.

crito

<< <i>After all, isn't an accurate grade the primary purpose of getting a coin slabbed? >>



No, not really, if you're getting them slabbed for yourself instead of for resale anyways. Three other reasons immediately come to my mind: First and foremost slabs protect your coins (I've got "butterfingers"). Second slabs are a good way to organize a collection of varieties (if you can get them to recognize your varieties, that is, which in itself is another reason). Third slabs give a collection a consistent look, especially nice when displaying a whole set (unless someone goes crazy and starts putting state flags flags and weird "satin finish" logos on the labels, ehem).

I'm sure there are other reasons too.. that's just how I prioritized them.

WaterSport

For me, I have had MUCH better success crossing ANACS Lincolns than NGC Lincolns.

WS

MAD4MORGANS

2002 Coin Grading Survey Results

and

2004 Coin Grading Results

koynekwest

"Anacs over NGC- prefer an honest grade to hype."

I agree 100%. I've seen too many NGC coins that are badly overgraded. I think it all boils down to dealer support.

BigBen

Those figures are highly suspect to me, as the survey wasn't conducted on an average collectordealer. Also what makes it suspect is that NGC and PCGS get "superior" across the board in areas that they have well known weaknesses in, like customer service and grading consistency. Surveys mean nothing unless we know who funded them ad and they were conducted scientifically.

coinpictures

<< <i>Those figures are highly suspect to me, as the survey wasn't conducted on an average collectordealer. Also what makes it suspect is that NGC and PCGS get "superior" across the board in areas that they have well known weaknesses in, like customer service and grading consistency. Surveys mean nothing unless we know who funded them ad and they were conducted scientifically. >>



Agreed. On the face of it, those surveys are nothing more than popularity contests. PCGS stays at the top because they've been at the top, etc.

Now if a group were to assemble a pool of 30-50 U.S. and foreign coins of various types and grades and submit the same coins anonymously in different batches at different times to the different TPGs over the course of a year and then compile results at the end, that would be a different matter. But that would involve serious time and cost.

BECOKA

<< <i>

<< <i>Those figures are highly suspect to me, as the survey wasn't conducted on an average collectordealer. Also what makes it suspect is that NGC and PCGS get "superior" across the board in areas that they have well known weaknesses in, like customer service and grading consistency. Surveys mean nothing unless we know who funded them ad and they were conducted scientifically. >>



Agreed. On the face of it, those surveys are nothing more than popularity contests. PCGS stays at the top because they've been at the top, etc.

Now if a group were to assemble a pool of 30-50 U.S. and foreign coins of various types and grades and submit the same coins anonymously in different batches at different times to the different TPGs over the course of a year and then compile results at the end, that would be a different matter. But that would involve serious time and cost. >>



I like this idea, maybe extend it to re-submitting 25 cracked out coins 2-3 times over a year to each TPG, record the results in all categories and then publish it. I know there are people out there with money and would love to do something like this for fun. We might get a few surprises like sending ICG and ANACS to the top?

CalGold

Look at prices realized at auction. ANACS coins often bring lower prices than NGC in the same grade. If you want to know why look at a lot of coins.

A lot of the accolades around here for ANACS are because guys have gotten grades there that they could not get at PCGS and NGC.

CG

BigBen

"A lot of the accolades around here for ANACS are because guys have gotten grades there that they could not get at PCGS and NGC. "

And what evidence do you have of this?

Also, if almost all ANACS coins cross to PCGS at the same grade, but only a minority of NGC coins do, then where is your logic?

CalGold

<< <i>And what evidence do you have of this? >>



Read these board for a while and look at ANACS coins, particularly MS coins, and you will see what I mean.



<< <i>Also, if almost all ANACS coins cross to PCGS at the same grade, but only a minority of NGC coins do, then where is your logic? >>



You are starting with a false premise. If almost all ANACS coins crossed to PCGS there would not be a very significant price disparity between ANACS and PCGS coins in the market.

CG