A good example of why it's stupid to buy conditionally rare moderns.
Russ
Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
PR65DCAM Accented Hair Kennedy brings $1013 - a new record price.
The old record was $967 (one I sold). Two years ago these were selling for $450 to $500. Yep, these moderns have nowhere to go but down.
Russ, NCNE
The old record was $967 (one I sold). Two years ago these were selling for $450 to $500. Yep, these moderns have nowhere to go but down.
Russ, NCNE
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Buyer could have gotten much more bang for his bucks by purchasing several hundred 'spaghetti hair' Kennedys made from the 1990s onward. Yarf!!!!
<< <i>Yep, these moderns have nowhere to go but down.
Russ, NCNE >>
Note that there are two mintmarks on this hub trial. The purpose of this piece was probably to determine where the mintmark would be placed on the die.
Of course they would have to bodybag the thing, right?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>How many of these do you think were made in CAM or DCAM, Russ? >>
I figure about 2000 true two sided cameos, and about 200 true two sided deep cameos.
Russ, NCNE
That's butt ugly. Can I have it?
Russ, NCNE
peacockcoins
Maybe if you're good. Of course, there's no chance of that...
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
we should just quit trying to prove the point, at least that's what i'm attempting to do. at the same time, the queen continues to list top pop speculative coins and sees no parallel.
Maybe if you're good. Of course, there's no chance of that...
Ah, the classics collector/dealer has brought the modern collector/dealer to his knees. What will happen next?
CG
Edited to add: There were three bidders interested at prices above $600. One of them now owns the coin. If the third or second bidder finds another one, what happens to the price?
And, I agree in advance that the same can happen in classics.
funny thing is the values keep going up and you marty and I keep on making money.
One day this modern will be classic, and we'll have one hell of a collection.
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
I'm so happy I think I'm going to cry.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
As a collector who was trying to put together a nice set of cameo 1965-1967 SMS coins, I recently decided to chase nice cameo proof 1950-1970 coins. Thanks to the dealers (they know who they are - CU Forum members) who have been very fair!
BTW, I have recently purchased a PCGS 1964 PR67CAM Accented Hair half, and I think it is a great coin!
Collector of US Small Size currency, Atlanta FRNs, and Georgia nationals since 1977. Researcher of small size US type - seeking serial number data for all FRN star notes, Series 1928 to 1934-D. Life member SPMC.
Military Intelligence
Jumbo Shrimp
defeaning silence
mournful optimist
pretty ugly
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Agreed. The first dozen shots seem to have missed the bird.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
It's just that the market is usually pretty thin at that altitude and you never know when you'll run into "air pockets".
Check out the Southern Gold Society
Sorry to inform you but as of this past weekend, we have ruled in the latest poll that 1964 coinage are officially classics.
Please kindly refer to all your acccented coinage as classics.
Oh well, guess you just have to be content as being an old has-been.
<< <i>ancient collectors laugh at the oxymoronic concept of "American Classics". >>
This couldn't be truer, unless you mentioned the opinion of those collectors of ancients, which would also be true.
roadrunner
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>I still don't understand how market makers would help if the classic market dropped. Weren't they like Beanie Babies in 1989? Had you been selling exotic classics, how would market makers have helped your customers? I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Are you saying moderns will be weak, because they're really just a fad, but real coins will not? >>
The Beanie Baby market doubled in Nov. of 1996 to Feb. of 1997 and then about three or four months later doubled again.
It wasn't until the end of 1998 or so the market began its crash.
I know because I was buying and selling them back then- on eBay using WebTv and no photos. Many times as soon as I received a Beanie I'd flip it right back on eBay and receive 50% or more. Of course it didn't help sellers back then who were not eBay savvy and would list them incorrectly (and not 'feature' the big ones).
I was able to sort of get out in time but toward that end, due to counterfeiting, there were a couple of popular 'grading services' (BBMom was one of them...) that sprouted up and I sent about two dozen of the rarer ones in for authentification and 'grading'. It took four months, do to demand, to get them back. By the time I did the market had already begun its spiral downward and now I have them all in storage- each in their cute little sealed plastic boxes with their certificates.
peacockcoins
Witness the 1909-S VDB, the 1932-D (or S) quarter, the 1916-D merc. These are other 20th century first year issues with special attributes.
To claim that this is just a "conditionally rare modern" when it's actually a 42+ year old, proof-only, first year, unique die variety with all of these other attributes, is somewhat disingenuous, don't you think?
--Severian the Lame
<< <i>Not everyone can consign.
Why should anyone have to wait 3-5 days? There is no one they can call..... >>
Most people do not live near a MAJOR MARKET MAKER either, so they have to mail their coins and wait for their money anyway, or wait for the next major show, and then drive to that show.
Unless one of Tony Sopranos' hitmen is paying you a visit, waiting a week or two for payment is usually not a problem.
Russ, why didn't YOU bid on, and try to purchase, this coin in auction??? If it has so much legs under it wouldn't it have been a great coin to buy/hold/then flip?
I received a piece of literature just yesterday exhaulting that values of Morgans and Peace dollars. "Twenty years ago, collectors lined up to pay $15,000 for a Morgan we are selling for $2,000 today. Buy now before the next upswing." That REALLY gives the reader mixed signals; exactly what Cladking was talking about
That advertisement reminded me about the instability of coins in general, but classics in particular.
Since I can't collect them all, I'll stick with my little modern niche that I don't think can hurt me. I don't mind little up and down swings, I just don't want something whose trend resembles a cliff.
Joe
<< <i>Not everyone can consign. Why should anyone have to wait 3-5 days? There is no one they can call..... . >>
I don't collect moderns. Also, I've never spent $1000 or more on a coin. However, this makes no sense to me.
Who in their right mind buys a collectable with money they are going to need on such short notice? If I thought there was any possible situation that would cause me to need my money back in less than 3-5 days I would never spend it on a collectable.
What happened to buying coins only with money that you don't need and can afford to loose?
<< <i>Who in their right mind buys a collectable with money they are going to need on such short notice? >>
Nobody. That's just one of her many strawman arguments.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>...There are more dealers willing to buy "classic" coins than moderns, granted a few will try and rip you, but the marjoity will BUY them at top dollar. >>
my guess is that the conventional wisdom would dispute the phrases "a few" and "top dollar"...... (conventional wisdom can't deal with "marjoity.")
ps. don't have the link but a wisconsin "extra leaf low," (or more common variety), in an anacs 66 slab sold for something between 5 and 600 yesterday as well.
ah, if only there were some market makers..........
<< <i>There are only a couple of circumstances under which I buy already graded coins. The first is if I think it's an upgrade candidate. The second is if I think I can flip it immediately for a profit. Neither applies in this case >>
Interesting comment from someone who has his finger on the pulse of this market. Russ won't buy properly graded coins unless he can flip them immediately at a profit. Why? We know that he prefers to make them himself. But if the market is really strong and going to continue upward, why not buy them now at marekt prices or even bid them up to promote the market?
CG
<< <i>The largest percentage of all modern coins that are slabbed are sold via large telemarketing companies or on TV to people who don't kbow the value and who are buying them because they are being hawked as goo deals. These sellers DO NOT buy the coins back which leaves the largest percentage of teh audience who buys moderns out in the cold. >>
Sounds eerily similar to the way generic gold is marketed to the unwary and sold at many times bullion value. Every show I attend I see older folks trying to sell their Liberty's and Saint's that they bought at a couple grand each from some huckster.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>... I see older folks trying to sell their Liberty's and Saint's that they bought at a couple grand each from some huckster.
>>
now, now, we like to call them "market makers" here.
Secord---Russ seems to imply (I know he's not) that because these have gone up $, they're great investments. No, they're stores of value w/o income or cash flow--just like bullion. In fact classic coins are closer to bullion, as both have "market makers" which by definition are associated with Exchanges (as in NYSE), or public auction houses (as in stock placements via Merrill Lynch).
tulip bulbs. That being said, selective moderns,
purchased at a reasonable price, with some professional
guidence can be both profitable and fun. As for myself, I have a mix
of classic and modern coins. My collecting has become rather eclectic.
As an example many silver quarters from the 40s, 50s and 60s in premium
MS-66 condition are overlooked and getting rare. Too many MS-66s have marks
dings or poor color or luster that would really downgrade them from the 66 grade.
You pick out the true Gems and in a reasonable period of time you will have real value
in your collection. The next jump to MS-67 for most of these quarters is around 4 figuers.
Who knows how many premium 66s are really 67s?
Camelot
For example, aren't common date Morgans in MS-67 plus more likely to fall dramatically than scarcer dates in MS-65 or below when times get tough?
Obscurum per obscurius
<< <i>Aren't thinly-traded condition rarities risky, no matter their "classic" or "modern" status? >>
Shame on you for injecting reality in to this discussion.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>Aren't thinly-traded condition rarities risky, no matter their "classic" or "modern" status? >>
Shame on you for injecting reality in to this discussion.
Russ, NCNE >>
Sorry. I'll go back to Open Forum drivel.
Obscurum per obscurius
These are not true market makers but rather more like brokers. Funny thing is, if it were not for the popularity of the modern coins, the classic coin market would be sound asleep and the spread on their "two sided" markets would be so large you could fly the space shuttle thru it.
imho.
<< <i>Somehow, I knew in advance this would be a sarcastic thread
When Russ is posting, I always start with that assumption and then change it as necessary (Which isn't too often
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