Some amusing counterfeit trade dollars

stev32k

Here is a group of four fake trade dollars that I find kind of interesting. For those that don't know or have forgotten trade dollars were produced between 1873 and 1885. Starting in 1879 only proofs were minted until the series ended in 1885. I bid on one dated 1794 (yes, 1794). However, ebay ended the listing and canceled the bids. Someone had sent the seller an email pointing out that trade dollars were not made until 1873 and the seller responded "I know that's what the books say, but what if they were wrong and this was a real coin - it would be worth millions". I enjoyed that one.

MORGANHUNTER2

Those will make greta potty dollars someday...

Coinhusker1

The two on the bottom are genuine impaired proofs -- the HUGE DATE variety!!

DrWho

been looking for a small date 72. the italic 71 too!

AgMe

Those are fun all around... I wouldn't mind a few dozen to use in a poker set.

RYK

Those are real. I am not falling for that trick again.

sinin1

I have an 1872-S with the same obverse die as the one you have


mine is not die struck - can see the mold at 2 places on the rim - still knid of cool since I know it is fake

ritepath

Any idea what % of sliver the fake TD have? I have a friend on another fourm that picked up 30 or so while he was in China.

stev32k

There are several different metallurgies used. I have some that have a solid copper core with a very thin (micron range) plating of silver. Others appear to be solid pewter.

Here's one of several I cut in half to see how they were made. You can see the copper core. I can remove the silver coating by dipping the coin in any of several acid type coin cleaners.

ritepath

thanks I'll pass that along.

zeus135

For those of us that aren't all that familiar with the Trade Dolllars, what's the best way to tell they are counterfeit? Are common mistakes often made in the design?

shirohniichan

<< <i>Those will make greta potty dollars someday... >>



My thoughts exactly!



<< <i>For those of us that aren't all that familiar with the Trade Dolllars, what's the best way to tell they are counterfeit? Are common mistakes often made in the design? >>



If you learn to distinguish type I vs. Type II obverses and reverses, you can oftentimes find good looking counterfeits with the wrong obverse and reverse combinations. For example, I saw a struck counterfeit that used an 1877 (type II) obverse with a 1876 and prior (type I) reverse. All four of those stev32k showed above are type I obverse coins.

stev32k

Here is a very common counterfeit 1877 that I've noted some of the distinguishing marks that show it's a fake. It is a type 1 obverse and reverse and these were not minted after 1876. There are other indications as well, but some will not show up in pictures. The main one is weight. A genuine coin will weigh about 27 grams the fakes rarely go over 24 grams. On fakes the obverse and reverse dies are nearly always 180 degrees from where they should be. I've only found one of 55 that had the correct orientation. There are even more characteristics on the examples below that I didn't point out, but I will modify them later.

stev32k

There seems to always be some visual clue that a fake is a fake, but you need to know what to look for. Here are two more examples. These are type 1 so the clues that worked for spotting a type 2 fake are not the same. So far all the fake type 1 coins I've seen have areas of missing detail. The most common seems to be the wheat stalks behind liberty. On genuine coins this a protected area and is slow to wear down. So even circulated coins have fairly good detail in these spots. Now check the examples below (the first two) then compare them to the well worn, but genuine VF20 (last one)

ibzman350

Interesting Steve,

I like that half trade dollar !









Herb

zeus135

Wow, thanks for the lesson!

CaptHenway

I've got that 1872 obverse with an O-mint reverse and that 1882 obverse with a CC-mint reverse. Came in the same batch as the 1799-S.
Tom D.

MAD4MORGANS

<< <i>There are several different metallurgies used. I have some that have a solid copper core with a very thin (micron range) plating of silver. Others appear to be solid pewter.

Here's one of several I cut in half to see how they were made. You can see the copper core. I can remove the silver coating by dipping the coin in any of several acid type coin cleaners.

>>




I took your advice and found that when I cut them in half, 4 out of my ten were not silver.

stev32k

Well Dang - you should have soaked them in sulfamic acid first then only cut the ones that were showing the copper color. If it just eats away the design and still looks like silver there is no need to cut them in half - they are most likely real.

MAD4MORGANS

<< <i>Well Dang - you should have soaked them in sulfamic acid first then only cut the ones that were showing the copper color. If it just eats away the design and still looks like silver there is no need to cut them in half - they are most likely real. >>





Well at least now I have twice as many!!