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"Set-up" coin strategies?

MercfanMercfan Posts: 700 ✭✭
in PCGS Set Registry Forum
I've seen several references to "set-up" coins submitted along with other grading submissions. While I think I understand the general strategy of creating in the graders some sort of "helpful" contrast between the appearance of the set-up coin and that of the coin(s) on which you'd like a solid grade, I'm curious as to how you proponents of "set-up" coins think this strategy works.

Can/does this really work, given the grading protocol at PCGS? If you think it can work, what do you look for in a set-up coin?

I'm also wondering why this strategy wouldn't be doomed if, for example, you submit one set-up coin and one non-set-up coin and the graders grade the non-set-up coin before they even look at the set-up coin. Do they necessarily grade the coins in the order in which you list them on the submission form?
"Coin collecting problem"? What "coin collecting problem"?

Comments

  • krankykranky Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭
    I was told by a former NGC grader that they do not necessarily grade the coins in the same order they are listed. Don't know about PCGS.

    New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    While they are under no obligation to look at coins in order it doesn't mean that they mix it up that often either.
    While most forum members don't seem to subsribe to the "set-up" theory, I'm not one of 'em. I've always either
    sent a group of coins in grade order (my grades) from bottom to top or top to bottom. Usually it was from bottom
    to top as more than often, it was the highest graded coins that offered the most bang if they went a point higher.
    Sending in a bunch of MS61-63 coins followed by a superb 66-67 may get you a MS65 in the end. For that rarer
    occasion when the lower graded coin had the most value and I was looking for say a 63 vice 62, a number of nice
    64 to 66 coins would precede it to help "drag" it up. Every major submitter I knew back in 1988-90 followed a
    similar pattern. Many of them were the crackout guys who bought at auction. Whether they do this today is
    beyond me as I don't submit all that many coins these days. Back then most every auction coin was still raw
    so you HAD to submit if you planned to make any money.

    I felt my own results showed the value of placing coins in order. Warning: you may get different results. And
    with the variabilities in grading today I'd say that's a far bigger issue than in what order coins are graded.
    Most submissions in 1988-90 were with classic coins of considerably more value. Today you have tons of moderns
    and lower valued coins deluging the services. It's no wonder they can't be consistent on all submissions.

    Using setup coins is not too far removed from submitting a complete set of your coins for comparison/review.
    If you make it a point to put your MS64++ after an average MS64, there's a good chance it could 65. Put it
    behind a nice MS63 and your odds may be less of getting that 65. We're dealing in tenths of points when it
    comes to the next grade.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • LucyBopLucyBop Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭
    heh...


    all of my coins are 'setup' coins...

    often when I get my crappy grades I wonder how in the heck i got 'setup' into submitting them....
    imageBe Bop A Lula!!
    "Senorita HepKitty"
    "I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
  • BearBear Posts: 18,953 ✭✭✭
    Its all strategery.
    There once was a place called
    Camelotimage
  • LincolnsRuleLincolnsRule Posts: 1,738 ✭
    The overall quality and well matchedness of your entire submission means everything! I'm slowly developing a theory on how to get good grades... but a bulk order of mine just posted though (very lousily) and that threw my current theory out the window...

    Here's some observations... Don't mix easy dates and hard dates. The easy dates will hog all the good grades...
    Oh, I wouldn't mix types too much. I think looking at small coins (very tiny marks) and then big coins (always tiny marks that shouldn't matter) messes them up.
    One submission (8 coins) had a bodybag in it, fair enough, my mistake, but then they undergraded the other 7... (some I have since upgraded)...
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This whole line of thinking is scary. I resently sent in some dimes to be graded. Some hard dates some not so hard (VF to 62ish) diff types. If they can't grade the coin in front of them without remembering the last coin or whatever, then they are nothing but a bunch of monkeys not fit to grade coins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    That's a bunch of bullsh*t if you have to send in certain coins in certain grades in certain order to get them grade correctly. For crying out loud you can only grade one coin at a time and that's the one in front of you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I could eat a bucket of nails just thinking about this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • monstermanmonsterman Posts: 797
    >>>>I was told by a former NGC grader that they do not necessarily grade the coins in the same order they are listed. Don't know about PCGS.


    while i cant speak for ngc....but at pcgs when a lot comes in it receives a lot number and a coin number and they are in order in the flips......and your sitting at a computer with boxes of coins next to you...you enter the lot number and the computer tells you the # of coins in the the lot and it automatically goes to the first one and then the next and so on ......as you enter your grade it will show you 2nd and 3rd base ( not possible if your first base ) as our grade is now locked in and cant be changed............graders get paid by the coin.....and to jump around a lot ....and not doing it in order which the computer will do it in order for you really slows you down from doind extra key puching....

    so they do not jump around coins in a lot as its a pain

    monsterman
    my goal is to find the monsters and i go where they are but i sometimes miss some.... so if you have any and want to sell IM THE BUYER FOR THEM!!!

    out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
  • STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭
    Set Up Strategies - No such thing anymore

    Upgrades - No such thing anymore

    Ms 68 Red Lincolns pre 1934 - ain't no way

    Ask me another question

    Stewart
  • clackamasclackamas Posts: 5,615 ✭
    You need to give a gradient that is apparent IMO. If you send in 20 66's with a single coin that could go 67. You will get 21 66's. If you send in a borderline 66/65 a few mid tier 66's and your "setup" coin you have a better chance, but your setup coin better be different in a good way, IMO. HRH, when I talked to him about this, did not see the logic or think it would/could/does work, but he could have been playing dumb. I would really like to know what Jim halperin thinks. I have submitted thousands of coins and for the most part I get the "money" grades when I think out my strategy. I disagree you can't mix a series or size. I have found the opposite to be true. When your setup coin is a large coin and you send in very small coins that should grade the same or higher my "big" coins seem to get the bump.

    Than again some people seem to have a system to beat Vegas... Do they really?
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