What is up with "BCCG"?
GeoffEighinger
Posts: 431 ✭✭
Not sure if I'm allowed to mention this on here but what is the deal with BCCG compared with BGS? I've seen two BCCG 10 cards and they were far from mint.
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Still legitimate-ish, as long as you dock the 2 points from the grade. If it's docked only 1 point, consider that a bonus. Personally, I think it's a shady way to pass off NM- cards as better than they are to unsuspecting buyers.
<< <i>I believe the rule of thumb for BCCG cards is to drop the grade 2 points for a rough estimate of a BGS/PSA crossover. >>
So why doesn't BCCG go to 12 !
<< <i>BCCG was some nonsense grading that BGS came up with. They were peddled on TV shopping networks trying to say they were sellling "10's" at such a low price. The whole thing is garbage. I had a guy come up to me last week at a card show trying to show me how he got this BCCG 10 AROD Flair RC for such a great price and he was trying to say "But it's a 10" I felt bad that he thought he was getting something he really wasn't. I think it's a shame that a big name like Beckett would decieve people >>
This is just total nonsense. There's nothing 'deceiving' about it. Beckett has always been upfront with the fact that a BCCG 10 is NOT the same as a BGS 10, so I don't know what you or anyone elee wants them to do to make this even clearer. If someone wants to plunk down 1200$ on a BCCG 10 '86 Jordan then that is their fault, NOT Becketts.
At some point everyone has to come to grips with the fact that it's the buyers, not the sellers, responsibility to understand exactly what a grade represents. I know a GEM 10, or a PRO 10, is not the same as a PSA 10, and I knew this after spending 20 minutes searching past results for ebay auctions. It's not unfair to expect others to do this minimal amount of homework as well.
The bottom line is this: you can't, and in fact SHOULD NOT, protect others from their own stupidity. If you buy an ungraded '52 Mantle for $1000 on fleabay, and it comes back counterfeit, then YOU are a moron. Sure, the seller is also a little sleazy, but in the final analysis the only person you really have to blame for this crappy transaction is yourself, since you are solely responsible for the fact that this transaction happened in the first place.
Lowlifes are everywhere, yet for some reason members of these boards like to think that the usual rules don't apply to the sale of collectibles.. If someone sees a 'get rich in 60 days' real estate seminar being hawked on late night TV and pays $2000 to attend do we coddle the buyer when it turns out to be a sham? No, we don't. Instead we marvel at the fact that anyone would be dumb enough to think they could make $50K a month in real estate after watching a couple DVD's and buying a few foreclosed homes. In no other arena do we cut people slack for behaving irrationally, yet when it comes to sports cards we like to place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the seller.
If a guy has a BCCG 10, or PRO 10, for sale, and he delivers the card as advertised, then nobody has a complaint. It's YOUR job to learn what that grade means in that particular holder-- it's not the seller's job to walk you through it.
Have you seen any other company come out with a second set grading tiers? I haven't.
I agree with you that there is a sucker born every minute. I feel bad about it because I have tremendous passion and truly enjoy the hobby. To see someone get taken bothers me.
Plus anything that's been peddled by KG is just annoying.
<< <i>I'm not going to say the guy who bought the Flair AROD was a card specialist by any means. However, think about how decieving it is that every other "10" (or Pristine) that I know of is Gem Mint regardless of the grading company now you spit out something that has a 10 on the label I think it's poor in the respect that it will jade novice collectors who don't know any better.
Have you seen any other company come out with a second set grading tiers? I haven't.
I agree with you that there is a sucker born every minute. I feel bad about it because I have tremendous passion and truly enjoy the hobby. To see someone get taken bothers me.
Plus anything that's been peddled by KG is just annoying. >>
There was a demand for this kind of nonsense, so Beckett filled it. If you have an issue with anyone it should be with either a) the unscrupulous dealers who slab cards in BCCG holders with the intention of deceiving their buyers, or b) the throngs of misinformed hobbyists who like to see a '10' on the holder no matter what. BCCG was trying to take business away from GEM, PRO, etc., since it was the customers of these grading shops that they were courting. So in the end I think BCCG is probably a good thing if it helps marginalize companies who have a company policy of slabbing trimmed cards.
Boo people new to the hobby or those re entering it will see the beckett name and may not be as enlightened as the rest of us and get hurt. how is that a good thing?
SD
Happy Holidays!
<< <i>This is just total nonsense. There's nothing 'deceiving' about it. Beckett has always been upfront with the fact that a BCCG 10 is NOT the same as a BGS 10, so I don't know what you or anyone elee wants them to do to make this even clearer. If someone wants to plunk down 1200$ on a BCCG 10 '86 Jordan then that is their fault, NOT Becketts
Boo people new to the hobby or those re entering it will see the beckett name and may not be as enlightened as the rest of us and get hurt. how is that a good thing?
SD >>
It's not a good thing or a bad thing- that's my point. But, to summarize:
1) BCCG fills a demand. You can like it or hate it, but the demand is there, and if BCCG didn't fill it it would be filled by companies like GEM and PRO. I would rather have cards being slabbed by BCCG then GEM or PRO, although you're free to disagree with that.
2) In a free market economy it's 'caveat emptor', and in a way that's just the end of the story. A guy may go to Home Depot and buy a crappy Briggs and Stratton air compressor for 1/3 of what a good compressor would cost. Does he have a legitimate complaint when it breaks down 3 days after the warranty expires? Shoddy goods and cut-rate services are everywhere-- not just in card collecting-- and we're so used to them that we rarely even think about them, yet for some reason when it comes to cards everyone likes to think that the ignorant should be coddled. And my question is 'Why'? If you're going to plunk down major money on a collectible, and you don't want to get burned, then for God's sake do a little homework. It doesn't require a crackerjack researcher to unearth the fact that a BCCG 10 is not the same as a PSA 10; just take 30 seconds to do a past results search on Ebay, or ask a fellow hobbyist who knows something about graded cards. And if you're not willing to do that then the odds are high you weren't going to get serious about the hobby in the first place, so it's no loss to the sports card collecting community.
You get what you pay for, Steve. Everyone knows this, so why shouldn't this rule apply to card collecting? If your buddy is looking to hire a guy to side his house, and three guys bid the job at 5K while one guy bids it at 2K, and you're buddy hires the low bidder do you really feel bad for him when the guy takes off with his money? Maybe a little, but your prevaling sentiment is 'You should have known better'. This is just common sense 101, and there's no reason why we can't demand new and seasoned hobbyists to display a little common sense when it comes to card purchases. Nobody can do your collecitng for you, just as nobody can do your thinking for you. It's silly to think otherwise.
Its seems simple to me, if your card is not really a 9 or 10 and you want to try to sell it as a 10, then you send it to one of the three "Crapy" grading companies. IMHO, BBCG is worse than GEM and PRO because of their strong name in the hobby. If Beckett has two grading companies, that would be fine, however, shouldn't the two companies grade cards to the same standard?
Because of this, I do not buy BGS or BCCG.... not sure what you will get. I will stick with SGC and PSA.
Merry Christmas
Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
Post Cereal both raw and PSA Graded (1961-1963)
You get what you pay for, Steve. Everyone knows this, so why shouldn't this rule apply to card collecting? If your buddy is looking to hire a guy to side his house, and three guys bid the job at 5K while one guy bids it at 2K, and you're buddy hires the low bidder do you really feel bad for him when the guy takes off with his money? Maybe a little, but your prevaling sentiment is 'You should have known better'. This is just common sense 101, and there's no reason why we can't demand new and seasoned hobbyists to display a little common sense when it comes to card purchases. Nobody can do your collecitng for you, just as nobody can do your thinking for you. It's silly to think otherwise.
BOO if all four of those guys showed up in SEARS trucks then I would have a problem. The anaolgy that you use does not fit here.
My point was a simple one. The BECKETT name is being used and some people that do not understand the differences that beckett is using could get hurt.
Steve
<< <i>Boo you say:
You get what you pay for, Steve. Everyone knows this, so why shouldn't this rule apply to card collecting? If your buddy is looking to hire a guy to side his house, and three guys bid the job at 5K while one guy bids it at 2K, and you're buddy hires the low bidder do you really feel bad for him when the guy takes off with his money? Maybe a little, but your prevaling sentiment is 'You should have known better'. This is just common sense 101, and there's no reason why we can't demand new and seasoned hobbyists to display a little common sense when it comes to card purchases. Nobody can do your collecitng for you, just as nobody can do your thinking for you. It's silly to think otherwise.
BOO if all four of those guys showed up in SEARS trucks then I would have a problem. The anaolgy that you use does not fit here.
My point was a simple one. The BECKETT name is being used and some people that do not understand the differences that beckett is using could get hurt.
Steve >>
That's a fair point, Steve, and in retrospect that analogy is a poor one.
Still, you don't have to be a card carrying member of MENSA to figure out the difference between BCCG and BGS. It requires only a nominal amount of research to discern the difference, and I still think it's fair to ask any hobbyist to do that work before plunking down money on a card.
Here's an example, I know a lot about Baseball Cards but like most people, I keep a jar of neat looking coins at home. I know almost nothing about coins but they're fun to look at sometimes even if they are worthless. I've seen at coin shops that there are several grading companies for coins, and I know nothing about any of them. I guarantee you though that if I decided to ever plop down a couple hundred for some coin I liked, I would definately research what I am spending my money on. Not researching it would seem ridiculous to me.
So in a way, Boopotts is right. If people don't care a little bit more about their money, then they are bound to lose it one way or another. Women, booze, gambling, it will be gone somehow. Although I still think Beckett is sleezy for the whole thing.
<< <i>As much as I hate Beckett and BCCG, Boopotts makes a lot of good points. People waste their money on stupid things all the time, like the infomercials.
Here's an example, I know a lot about Baseball Cards but like most people, I keep a jar of neat looking coins at home. I know almost nothing about coins but they're fun to look at sometimes even if they are worthless. I've seen at coin shops that there are several grading companies for coins, and I know nothing about any of them. I guarantee you though that if I decided to ever plop down a couple hundred for some coin I liked, I would definately research what I am spending my money on. Not researching it would seem ridiculous to me.
So in a way, Boopotts is right. If people don't care a little bit more about their money, then they are bound to lose it one way or another. Women, booze, gambling, it will be gone somehow. Although I still think Beckett is sleezy for the whole thing. >>
Another way to look at this is that sleazy seller's can't prosper without a pool of stupid buyers from which to prey. So, if 'sleazy selling' annoys you remember that at least part-- and maybe as much as half- of the blame lies with the people who buy their stuff.
<< <i>In my business, if I reccomend a home inspector, an he claims the hosue is a "10". Then after 2 months we find out the heating systems is leaking gas, and it was installed incorrectly, I can be sued along with the home inspector. So if a BCCG 10 is really a 7 by any other company, why isn't it LYING. Oh wait 'cause grading is "subjective". I say bull$hitte. Just another way for Beckett an dbig dealers to make money by deceiving intellectually challenged people. i am all for making a profit, but a 10 should be damn close to a 10 no matetr what the holder. As I said earlier if it is 2 points lower, end the scale at 12!~
More silliness. So what, the first guy who comes up with a 1 to 10 grading standad gets to set the standard for all future graders? PSA essentially redefined what 'near mint' meant, and a lot of people who had cards that were considered NM pre 1992 lost a lot of money once PSA's standards became widely accepted. By your measure PSA shouldn't have redefined the grading standard, because there was already a standard in place.
You should amend your statement to read 'another way for beckett and big dealer's to take advantage of lazy and poorly informed buyers', which puts a whole different slant on it.
Ok fair enough BUT how about the people that do think they are researching and see the Beckett name, see that Beckett is a reliable company (as opposed to PRO) feel that they have done the research. and then pay for a card that is in fact over graded by a reputable company?
The main point here is that Beckett is a name synomonous <sp> with the hobby. Many may feel that they did in fact do the homework before buying and still get the shaft.
Example I read some message boards and read that PRO and GEM etc are crap.
Beckett, Gai, Sgc, and Psa are the way to go.
I see an ebay auction and Im ready to jump right in. I see a BCCG card (thinking Beckett) I can't go wrong. Bid 400.00 on a card and then 3 weeks later I then realize that BCCG is no better then PRO even though it is BECKETT!
How we piss are money away in other things does not matter.
We thought we were buying into a product with a strong name attached.
lazy and poorly informed buyers'
being poorly informed should no let a company like BECKETT allow sleazy people the ooportunity to take advantage of anyone.
SD
<< <i>
I see an ebay auction and Im ready to jump right in. I see a BCCG card (thinking Beckett) I can't go wrong. Bid 400.00 on a card and then 3 weeks later I then realize that BCCG is no better then PRO even though it is BECKETT!
SD >>
Then turn around and sell it. That's the great things about auctions; the price you were willing to pay is only a couple bucks more than what someone else would pay.
In any event, Steve, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. You make some fine points, and I understand your argument... but at the end of it I'm on the other side of the fence.
Here's hoping you and yours have a fantastic Christmas and a prosperous New Year.
<< <i>And also, who are these 'intellectually challenged' people? Are you suggesting that the people who buy BCCG cards are retarded, or otherwise mentally handicapped?
You should amend your statement to read 'another way for beckett and big dealer's to take advantage of lazy and poorly informed buyers', which puts a whole different slant on it. >>
AND....
<< <i>
<< <i>And also, who are these 'intellectually challenged' people? Are you suggesting that the people who buy BCCG cards are retarded, or otherwise mentally handicapped?
You should amend your statement to read 'another way for beckett and big dealer's to take advantage of lazy and poorly informed buyers', which puts a whole different slant on it. >>
AND....
That's a real sweet sentiment. Everyone loves an Internet tough guy like yourself, and I'm certainly no exception.
And best of luck with the Connie in '08 campaign. If that airhead somehow manages to snag the GOP nomination I'll be dancing in the streets.
Back to the earlier salient points. One point that wasn't made is that Beckett commited a cardinal sin of business by diluting their brand with BCCG. While it is not uncommon for businesses to come out with a cheaper or poorer quality offering to meet some market niche, they usually are smart enough to disguise it so as not to cheapen the "higher quality" image. I thought Beckett was foolish to do this, as it has diminished any positive brand equity they might have had by confusing the consumers.
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