Do the elite collectors enjoy a privilege that is detrimental to the masses and the hobby?
Longacre
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As with everything in life, there are different classes and subsets which tend to separate one group of people from another group. The collecting world is no different. I believe that the elite collectors (however one wants to define them) enjoy a privilege that can be viewed as detrimental to the common collectors in the hobby, as well as detrimental to the hobby in general.
From my viewpoint, the elite collectors tend to enjoy advantages that make them “move to the front of the line” in all aspects of the hobby. In a non-hobby context, I was able recently to experience privilege first hand. On a trip to Moscow for work, someone at my office thought I was important enough to warrant special treatment at immigration. They arranged for a handler to speed me through the line, which typically moves at a snail’s pace, at best (not to be stereotypical, but I was greeted by a typically Russian looking woman, about 5 feet tall, built like a battleship, and wearing a military-type uniform). This woman literally manhandled the few hundred people in front of me in line, allowing me to cut to the front.
In the hobby context, I feel as though the collecting masses are frequently manhandled by the elite. For example, the elite collectors get access to the best advice in the business, usually free of charge because of their status as elite collectors. The elite collectors are tipped off when a “well managed promotion” is about to commence, thereby increasing the elites’ profits in the hobby. The elite collectors garner special treatment when it comes time to sell, too. Because the elite collectors have the choicest pieces in their collections, they receive the highest market prices possible, and their coins are not discounted as a matter of course. If sales are made by auction, the elite collectors receive preferential treatment in the form of a separate catalog, better auction terms, greater publicity which translates into higher prices, etc.
Overall, I don’t think this special treatment is good for the hobby and further puts down the common collector. It separates the collecting world into “the best and most sought after coins”, and “everything else.” Does anyone agree or have a different viewpoint?
From my viewpoint, the elite collectors tend to enjoy advantages that make them “move to the front of the line” in all aspects of the hobby. In a non-hobby context, I was able recently to experience privilege first hand. On a trip to Moscow for work, someone at my office thought I was important enough to warrant special treatment at immigration. They arranged for a handler to speed me through the line, which typically moves at a snail’s pace, at best (not to be stereotypical, but I was greeted by a typically Russian looking woman, about 5 feet tall, built like a battleship, and wearing a military-type uniform). This woman literally manhandled the few hundred people in front of me in line, allowing me to cut to the front.
In the hobby context, I feel as though the collecting masses are frequently manhandled by the elite. For example, the elite collectors get access to the best advice in the business, usually free of charge because of their status as elite collectors. The elite collectors are tipped off when a “well managed promotion” is about to commence, thereby increasing the elites’ profits in the hobby. The elite collectors garner special treatment when it comes time to sell, too. Because the elite collectors have the choicest pieces in their collections, they receive the highest market prices possible, and their coins are not discounted as a matter of course. If sales are made by auction, the elite collectors receive preferential treatment in the form of a separate catalog, better auction terms, greater publicity which translates into higher prices, etc.
Overall, I don’t think this special treatment is good for the hobby and further puts down the common collector. It separates the collecting world into “the best and most sought after coins”, and “everything else.” Does anyone agree or have a different viewpoint?
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
0
Comments
In all things, money gets preferential treatment. JMO
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
I thought choice coins were worth more???
Longacre, I know you weren't born yesterday. If you were a realitor, and you could list a house on Laguna Beach, CA with 5 bedrooms, 5 bathrooms at $10,000,000 and get 1% on the sale, or list another home for $300,000, and get 3%, which would you choose???
Do you think an auction wants a $10,000,000 consign at 108%, or a $300,000 consign at 100%???
The masses in the coin world, LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, is NOT the elite, and thus they are not dictated by the elite. They are in a different league alltogether.
Always gives me something to think about...
GOOD DISCUSSION. Looking forward to some responses.
No question that the elite collectors get advantages, if by "elite" we mean deep pockets and/or well-connected. It's no different in any other field. One other aspect that I didn't see mentioned in the OP is that they often get first shot on stuff. Great coins change hands privately without the "masses" even knowing the coin was available. Of course, to play in that league you need to have serious funds available. I guess my thought is that ANYONE who has enough money can get into that club. It's not a matter of being lucky enough to have good connections, etc.
I don't necessarily agree that these things are harmful to the general collecting public. For the average Joe who is doing a set of ASEs or a US type set, or even a set of BU Lincolns, there's no problem finding nice coins. Availability is not a problem, and there is enough of them out there that comparison shopping for price and quality is easy enough. The coins they pursue aren't those which are targeted by the elite.
To the point about getting insider info on promotions, you're probably right. But that's an area that doesn't affect the average collector. The coins which are promoted are widely available in quantity (a necessary factor) and while the typical collector may end up paying more because his/her purchase happened to coincide with that coin being run up at the time, it's not likely to be a fatal mistake. Collectors who are oblivious to promotions could just as easily buy a coin that's in the trough because of lucky timing.
I totally agree that there are two levels - as you said, the "best and most sought after" and "everything else". It's always been that way. But I don't think those two worlds overlap, and what happens in the world of the elites doesn't harm the average collector.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
I also agree with Kranky. People in various collecting dollar strata (often correlated with their level of affluence) do not generally compete with one another. But if someone in an upper level decides to bottom feed (ie. if TDN decides to collect XF Dahlonega gold, for example), those at the lower level (ie. me) will surely suffer from diminished access to the better material.
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Link to 1950 - 1964 Proof Registry Set
1938 - 1964 Proof Jeffersons w/ Varieties
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
While it is not only money that dictates influence and priviledge, it rates high on the list.
Fair-no; reality-yes.
Thats my take on it anyway
It's not detrimental for the most part as long as the big money collectors stay in the big money coins.
For most ordinary collectors, that is all inconsequential. They are not going after such pieces except for perhaps placing the low opening bid on an 1913 Liberty nickel so they can say they were among the underbidders. What is competing with them is the wholesaler, not any elite collector. I don't see elite activities as detrimental to the hobby. Your completion of Buffalo nickels in XF isn't making the front page of Coin World, much less Yahoo News. When the big guns fire, the world hears them, takes momentary notice, and some more new collectors are drawn to the hobby as well as some are broght back to the hobby of their youth.
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<< <i>From my viewpoint, the elite collectors tend to enjoy advantages that make them “move to the front of the line” >>
Since they're in an entirely different line than I am, it's no sweat off my sack.
Russ, NCNE
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
Some top notch hotels in Las Vegas let visitors stay for free in luxury suites. What is the catch?
You have to spend at least $1 million or more gambling at the casino connected with hotel.
High end stores in New York etc. have special floors with very expensive merchandise unknown and not open to the general public but only to those chosen by the business who are very wealthy.
With coins I'm sure someone known to be a big money buyer calls Heritage etc. that they get
first class treatment.
Example: At an auction, Don Kagin Jr. at a ANR auction two years ago, literally sat on the floor to let my sister sit in a chair to engage in a very involved 30 minute conversation with her. My sister? She is a public school teacher in a poor neighborhood in New York City and does not collect coins. The conversation had absolutely nothing to do with coins but instead with education which Don is well known to be involved in. You think it was because of me? Not possible. I have bought one coin from Don Kagin in the 30 years I have known him.
2nd example: The Norwebs let me into their private world of their coin vault rooms in their different banks even though I was a College student in the early 1970's and did not even own a suit and was worth less than $500 including my entire coin collection. They did not see coins as a class based society depite the fact they lived in a upper crust society in the United States as "Ambassador" for the United States. On the days they viewed or catalogued their coins, they NEVER went to restaurants of any kind. Always brown bagged (NOT boxed lunches) replete with thermos bottles.
Will it remain this way always? I do not know.
I have interacted with both in various venues (not coins) and much prefer down to earth.
<< <i>There are coins aplenty, for everyone. >>
I couldn't agree more.
<< <i>--F. Scott Fitzgerald was right a lond time ago--The rich live in a manner unknown to you and I
Surprisingly F. Scott would make a grammatical error like that (you and I). You sure he said that?
On another note, the socialists on the board will be pleased to know that if you're over 65, your medical treatment (aka Medicare) is the same whether you are one of the Waltons or a homeless person.