This USC team, the best team ever?
Axtell
Posts: 10,037 ✭✭
in Sports Talk
I heard the argument that if they win against Texas, they would be the greatest college team ever.
Hard to argue against it...they've reeled on 35 in a row, they've beaten everyone, and they've won equally on the road and at home. Also with so many scholarships, the playing field has been leveled.
I am sure there are a bunch of PAC 10 haters who will argue otherwise, but can one really say if USC wins, they aren't the best team to ever play?
Hard to argue against it...they've reeled on 35 in a row, they've beaten everyone, and they've won equally on the road and at home. Also with so many scholarships, the playing field has been leveled.
I am sure there are a bunch of PAC 10 haters who will argue otherwise, but can one really say if USC wins, they aren't the best team to ever play?
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Good topic for after the Texas game.
I wonder how many of their players will be drafted this next year.
<< <i>An argument could surely be made. They have to beat Texas first. Not an easy task. Texas is not UCLA. >>
They said oklahoma was going to give them a good game last year, too.
Regardless this game could be a classic and am really looking forward to it.
I think the PAC10 gets an unfair shake nationwide because so few people get to see their games, and the regional biases of the people who decide what's newsworthy gets in the way, too.
Yes USC has had some close calls, but let's understand that their opponent's 'national championship' games are the ones with USC...so they typically get the best each of their opponents have to offer.
Pete Caroll and a month to prepare for Vince Young and UT? This game will be a blowout in USC's favor.
<< <i>If they beat Texas, they will win their 3rd National Championship in a row. That has never been done in Div. 1 football I dont think >>
I think Oklahoma did it in the 1950s, but I'm too lazy to look it up to confirm.
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<< <i>If they beat Texas, they will win their 3rd National Championship in a row. That has never been done in Div. 1 football I dont think >>
I think Oklahoma did it in the 1950s, but I'm too lazy to look it up to confirm. >>
no, they won 74 and 75, but that was just 2 in a row. oklahoma-championships
<< <i>Technically, didn't they "share" the championship their first year?....or am I thinking about someone else? >>
yes, they were the AP national champion in 2004 (because they got over looked in the BCS by LSU/OK) and Won both by SMASHING the Sooners in the BCS game in 2005, then this year have a chance to win their third.
It may be their 2nd national BCS title in a row, but It will still be their THIRD AP National Title in a row, and no one has ever done that in Div. 1 football.
and FYI, there have been Dozens of split poll titles over the past 40-50 years (AP / UPI and now AP/BCS) and everyone that wins one, always claims it. Both are legitimate championships.
<< <i>The '95 Huskers would smash them like they did the gator's in the Fiesta bowl. The '95 Huskers were too balanced. USC couldn't defend Tommy Frazier and the option. The '95 Huskers still have guys from the defense playing in the NFL. >>
quit living in the past. the Huskers were good but not "3 in a row" good!
<< <i> >>
quit living in the past. the Huskers were good but not "3 in a row" good! >>
I thought the question was about the best "team" ever not the best streak ever. If USC was a team in the midwest it wouldn't be getting the hype it's getting now even going for a 3-peat. We all know it's true.
<< <i>The '95 Huskers would smash them like they did the gator's in the Fiesta bowl. The '95 Huskers were too balanced. USC couldn't defend Tommy Frazier and the option. The '95 Huskers still have guys from the defense playing in the NFL. >>
I doubt that sincerely...you can shut down one of the three headed monster (Leinart, Bush, White), but the other 2 will still wreak havoc.
Throw in how many scholarships each team gets to hand out, and add in a coach who is among the most prepared week in and week out, and you have the Juggernaut known as USC.
Remember Oklahoma won 50 some straight games in the 1950's.
The 1944 and 1945 Army Teams have a claim to being the best of All-Time. This team basically shut out Notre Dame for these two seasons by a combined score of 113-0. (44-0 and 59-0 and the Notre Dame teams during these two years were not thaaat bad!).
I don't think that Howard Jones or perhaps even John McKay would agree... I doubt Woody Hayes, Bud Wilkinson, Bernie Beirmann (spelling) or Robert Zuppke would agree either...
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
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<< <i>The '95 Huskers would smash them like they did the gator's in the Fiesta bowl. The '95 Huskers were too balanced. USC couldn't defend Tommy Frazier and the option. The '95 Huskers still have guys from the defense playing in the NFL. >>
I doubt that sincerely...you can shut down one of the three headed monster (Leinart, Bush, White), but the other 2 will still wreak havoc.
Throw in how many scholarships each team gets to hand out, and add in a coach who is among the most prepared week in and week out, and you have the Juggernaut known as USC. >>
The juggernaut that barely squeaked past ND?
Keep in mind... when you look at the Oklahoma winning streak, the Washington winning streak and other prominant winning streaks, including Army, Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Cal and even Nebraska... (and there was that Nebraska- Wisconsin game in Madison in 1974 I think it was that ended a 20 some game streak for Nebraska...) there are always close games and finding a way to win is the sign of champions.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
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The juggernaut that barely squeaked past ND?
Hmm ND is going to a BCS bowl, and as the poster above mentioned, is a USC rival, and let's not forget to mention, ND had 2 weeks to prepare for that game.
You make it sound like ND this year was a bum team...which as everyone can attest to they are not.
But I understand you are biased towards the hometown team.
For 3 straight years from 1934 thru 1936 Minnesota was National Champion ( or shared.one year with SMU as USC has done with LSU ), USC could top that next season. The Golden Gophers also won the title in 1940 and 1941, giving them an impressive, unequaled 5 out of 8 consecutive years as College football national champs.
For any one particular season, very tough to call, many many years back, wasn't someone undefeated , untied, and unscored upon ? That would be hard to top.
All time winning pct. for major schools with 100+ years, shows Notre Dame tops, followed by Michigan. Texas is # 6, USC is #10.
A victory over Texas in the Rose Bowl would certainly bolster any claim that the current USC team is among the best ever !
<< <i>Hmm ND is going to a BCS bowl >>
Yeah, and you know Oregon should be going instead. But its Notre Frickin Dame so they HAVE to go!!
Please get your facts straight.
First, USC has not won 35 games in a row, as you have repeatedly said on this thread. It's 34.
Second, each team differs every season. Players come and players go. So one can't say this year's team is the best ever based on a winning streak that extends over parts of three seasons. The 2003 and 2004 teams were made up differently than this year's team.
Third, USC has won only one championship in a row, not two. LSU won it in 2003, and USC won it last season. The championship is called the BCS, and USC -- as part of the Pac 10 - signed up to it.
Fourth, how can this season's USC team be considered the best ever until they have played every game? If Texas wins the Rose Bowl on January 4, will it be the best team ever?
Actually, there can truly be no best ever. Every year is different. Each era is different. The game is constantly evolving. How can one say a 2005 team is better than, say, the best team from 1936 or 1944 or 1953 or 1965 or 1975 or 1983 or 1997? That a team is even the best for a particular season is often arguable because we have never had a play-off system. Any championship is mythical.
Chris
Secondly, they were the AP national champs each of the last two years.
Thirdly, I'd think it more difficult now more than ever because of the amount of parity that is in place in college football (as I put the Patriots run of 3 out of 4 super bowls in this era surpassing any other run of super bowl wins).
Fourth, the core of players playing this season are the same as last years, and many carried over from the year before.
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<< <i>
The juggernaut that barely squeaked past ND?
Hmm ND is going to a BCS bowl, and as the poster above mentioned, is a USC rival, and let's not forget to mention, ND had 2 weeks to prepare for that game.
You make it sound like ND this year was a bum team...which as everyone can attest to they are not.
But I understand you are biased towards the hometown team. >>
I'm not denying I'm a homie, but I wasn't the one making all the grandiose claims either. When I referred to SC "squeaking" past ND that was more of a reference to your "Juggernaut" claim. My comments about the "95 Huskers, to yours about USC being the best team ever. I was just pointing out there have been others who could make that same claim. But your repeated denials to even consider that another team in the history of college football could be as good as this years USC is repeatedly ignored, so who's the biased one around here?
It's funny but the only people who like the BCS are the ones who either see it or use it as a way to ligitamize their own claims about a team or their schedule. Everyone else says its flawed and needs to be fixed BUT "ND is going to a BC bowl so that the SC win over ND all that more impressive".
I think CollectorChris hit the nail on the head.
I think it is possible that when Oklahoma plays Nebraska... considering it is a legendary rivalry, where things happen... and often do, makes that an unpredictable game. Even when Nebraska plays Missouri strange thinks can happen... so why is it so difficult for you to understand that when USC PLAYS Notre Dame upsets can happen and that is basically what makes this sporting... on any given Saturday, it is possible that any team can win and that is why we watch and have fun... don't attempt to take that away... save that for something else.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
And who was the Head Football Coach at Minnesota during the majority of that time frame? And I am sorry because I did not take the time to look up the spelling of his last name first...
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
SD
<< <i>Secondly, they were the AP national champs each of the last two years. >>
correct and AP poll is FAR OLDER than the newly created, computer conglomeration of the BCS. Active since 1936, the AP poll has for DECADES been the accepted poll for Champions, as others have come and gone beside it.
and, NO TEAM, not even Minnesota, has won the AP National Title 3 years in a row.
Associated Press Final Season Polls
<< <i>For 3 straight years from 1934 thru 1936 Minnesota was National Champion ( or shared.one year with SMU as USC has done with LSU ) >>
It seems that Minn split the title with other teams ALL THREE of those years. (and there was No official AP poll in 35 by the way so No one has won the AP 3 times in a row, ever)
http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/national_championships/nchamps_year.php
In 1934 all polls selected Miinesota, In 1935 the CFRA, NCF and HF, all established before 1900, selected undefeated Minnesota, while the 1925 starting DS poll, selected once beaten SMU. In 1936 The AP began to pick a champ and was at the time considered the most reputable, they selected Minnesota. Thus as aforementioned, three National chmpionships in a row, with one being shared , similar to USC, having shared one with LSU.
In 1940 and 1941, Beirman's last year, they also were selected a national champs by the AP, thus, 5 National championships in an 8 year span.
CFRA=College FB reasearch Assn., NCF=National Championship Foundation, HF= Helms Foundation, DS=Dickenson System
In 1875 the first shared National Championship ever was between Princeton (CFRA) and Harvard (NCF), both undefeated.
Except for 1965 and then 1968 and forward, the AP ( and the others ) used to select champs BEFORE the Bowl games, which were not nearly as numerous as now. A few champs might have been crowned a bit unjustly in those earlier years, one example may be 1935, the shared champ Southern Methodist U. lost the Rose Bowl to Stanford 7-0, Minnesota did not go to any Bowl game, due to conference policy at the time.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i> If USC was a team in the midwest it wouldn't be getting the hype it's getting now even going for a 3-peat. We all know it's true. >>
I'd like to nominate this as the post most removed from the truth this year.
West coast teams in ALL sports get no love....it's no secret. All the crotchety, old sportswriters are ASLEEP when west coast sports are being played, and therefore don't get the hype the east coast does.
You don't think a team in the midwest, in the midst of a 34 game winning streak (soon to be 35), and back to back to back national titles wouldn't be receiving this press? Hell, they'd be getting MORE!
Congratulations for posting the myth of the year!
I stay up late, and watch many PAC-10 games. The games are high scoring. Is this due to high powered offense or soft defenses? Probably a little bit of both. And generally conferences are full of teams with a similar style. The fact is the old adage "defense wins championships" is still believed and the PAC-10 has weaker defenses. This is why bowl games are so exciting because when you mix two teams with opposite styles no one knows what will happen.
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Congratulations for posting the myth of the year! >>
I've seen more complete teams than this group, most recently 2001 Miami (but I'm not saying that team is the best ever either).
<< <i>In 1934 all polls selected Miinesota,
In 1935 the CFRA, NCF and HF, all established before 1900, selected undefeated Minnesota, while the 1925 starting DS poll, selected once beaten SMU. In 1936 The AP began to pick a champ and was at the time considered the most reputable, they selected Minnesota. Thus as aforementioned, three National chmpionships in a row, with one being shared , similar to USC, having shared one with LSU. >>
you clearly are not intrested in the FACTS of this are you?!
ALL polls in each of these years did NOT all agree on the champion. Minnesota SHARED/Split the polls all three of these years...
Please notice the actual facts below.
1934 - (click the link to see the names of the 11 different Polls that selected Alabama as champ that year over Minn)
1935 - (click the link to see the names of the 19 different Polls that selected MANY DIFFERENT TEAMS as champ that year over Minn)
1936 - (click the link to see the names of the 21 different Polls that selected MANY DIFFERENT TEAMS as champ that year over Minn)
And before you get you panties all in a wad about what polls are the "real champion" or not, this site documents that clearly
as to what polls are considered the Legitimate titles each year
Recognized National Championships
The following selectors are utilized for determining National Championships throughout this site. These selectors are recognized by College Football Data Warehouse as the most acceptable selectors throughout history.
1869-1882 National Championship Foundation
1883-1935 Helms Athletic Foundation
1919-1935 College Football Researches Association
1936-Current Associated Press Poll
1950-Current Coaches Poll
but still, as I said, no one has won the AP championship 3 years in a row.
There were only four widely accepted polls before 1936, they seleceted MInnesota U., one year as mentioned they split and one picked once defeated SMU over undefeated Minnesota.
USC and Texas should provide a clear cut national champ, but perhaps if 19 different "experts" are asked , some other team will force a split.