Undiscovered Goetz Shooting Medal

cacheman · November 11, 2005 5:43AM

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cacheman · November 11, 2005 5:43AM

cosmicdebris · November 11, 2005 6:08AM

Very cool find. I was going to ask about the missing signature adn then bought it up in your second post.

harasha · November 11, 2005 6:08AM

VERY!

Garneteye · November 11, 2005 6:36AM

Great post(s) let us know your progress.

Dan

oldshep · November 11, 2005 6:55AM

The detail on the city view reverse is amazing!!!!
Post when you get some more info on these.
Shep

cosmicdebris · November 11, 2005 10:12PM

The more I look at these the more I think someone somehow only used Goetz's Ludwig for this medal and someone else did everything else on it. None of the lettering looks like Goetz's and the reverse imagery is just not his style.

sumnom · November 11, 2005 11:15PM

Why the spelling difference?

"Protektor" vs. "Protector"

I have the same suspicions as cosmic debris on this one.

cacheman · November 12, 2005 12:45AM

Udo · November 12, 2005 2:17AM

I think it's from Goetz.

danglen · November 12, 2005 3:10AM

I'll vote for Goetz

Lynch · November 12, 2005 4:28AM

Congratulations on this discovery piece.

I had no idea Goetz designed shooting medals.

cacheman · November 12, 2005 5:24AM

There are no mention of individual award medals per se... Goetz made magnificent, ornate, Champion shooter necklaces as mentioned below.

The only reference made to shooting medals comes from Kienast Volume II where he states: " Known in Geman as Schützenkette. such a chain of honor is awarded to the shooter with the highest score in the annual shooting matches which are held by the local shooting clubs. The person so honored is called the Schützenkönig and he and his wife, the queen, will "reighn" for one year until the next festivale. The chain of honor however, does not become the property of the respective annual winner. It is passed on from year to year to the latest champion shot. The name of the champion and the year are engraved on a medal and attached to the chain."

I can scan the images from the book if anyone is interested.

sumnom · November 12, 2005 8:00AM

This is fascinating, cacheman. Why do you think the spelling might be different?

Conder101 · November 13, 2005 12:40AM

I don't know much about Goetz medals but I did find the two K-22 medals interesting The silver version is made from a different reduction of the reverse die, it does not match the larger bronze version. The lettering style has been changed slightly, most noticably on the B's.

Udo · November 13, 2005 1:33AM

<< <i>This is fascinating, cacheman. Why do you think the spelling might be different? >>

The different spelling of "Protector" and "Protektor" isn't very exeptional.

Protector = Latin spelling

Protektor = German spelling

Both versions were used and correct in those days I assume.
At least in "Meyers Konversationslexikon from 1888" both versions were used.

cacheman · November 13, 2005 1:47AM

The Munchen Kindl, within the seal on the bottom of the two K-22 reverses, are different too...

Conder101 · November 13, 2005 2:02AM

Should they both be listed as K-22 then?

cacheman · November 13, 2005 4:17AM

I actually had the bronze cast entered as K-22 and the silver struck as K-22(b) in my database already...

sumnom · November 13, 2005 9:42AM

Thanks, Udo. Is it common to mix Latin and German spelling in the same phrase in cases such as this?

Udo · November 14, 2005 1:31AM

I think Goetz generally prefered the German spelling. But since it wasn't a mistake to use the Latin spelling he was more flexible regarding the artistic aspect.

In the case of the shooting medal the word "PROTECTOR" is part of the lettering. The word as a whole had to be curved along the edge.
I suspect that he used the letter "C" because it fits better in the curverd lettering with its round shape as the more square shape of the letter "K".

On K-22 the word "PROTEKTOR" is written in one line, the usage of the letter "K" was probably more suitable for this medal in Goetz' opinion.

sumnom · November 14, 2005 7:02AM

Interesting. Thank you, Udo.

SYRACUSIAN · November 14, 2005 7:15AM

He was scrambling for money like any young artist. He often worked for the Atelier of Adolf Daumiller and the medals he produced under these circumstances were not signed by Goetz and their attribution has for years gone to Daumiller - rightly so, as Goetz was in effect an employee. If you check the hundreds medals of L. Chr Lauer, M&W-Stutgartt and many other of the private mints you will find that the majority give no credit to the actual medallist but only to the firm.

Aaaah, the drama of thousands of unrecognized artists, where all the credit goes to the firm for which they work now or have in the past. Very few end up working on their own one day.

Definetely a nice catch catchman.

Undiscovered Goetz Shooting Medal

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