Conder Token Questions-Need Darkside Help-Photos attached (sort of)

MAD4MORGANS · July 7, 2005 3:07AM

I would like to see if anyone can help me. I am asking info for a friend. He has a 1791 Half-Penny Conder Token with John Wilkerson Ironmaster on the obverse.

There is some lettering on the coins edge that looks like it is half the upper letters of some inscription. Is this common for Conder Tokens and does anyone know what it may say?

One word may be the upper half of the word "BERSHAM" or something like that with other words.

Are Conder Tokens worth much?? F-->VF condition.

Thanks for any help!!

edited for spelling!!

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Here are a few microscope shots of the conder (no camera setup yet).

Please take a look and see what you think of what it is. I have two edge shots to show how th lettering appears as well.

Sorry about the poor quality photos but it's the best I can do right now.

Terry
Mad4Morgans

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Steve27 · July 7, 2005 3:14AM

Usually the edge says where the token can be redeemed. As for worth, as with any coin/token it depends on the token. I believe this one is fairly commom, but wait until Cosmic or someone else with a copy of "The Provincial Token-Coinage of the Eighteenth Century" by Dalton & Hamer comes along.

lordmarcovan · July 7, 2005 3:19AM

"-BERSHAM" sounds like part of "Habersham" to me.

Is there a Habersham conder token? I dunno, since I don't have the D&H book.

There's a Habersham Street here in Brunswick, though.

BTW, M4M, it's "Conder", with an "e". If you spell it with an "o", you're talkin' about an ugly, vulturey-lookin' bird.

MAD4MORGANS · July 7, 2005 3:20AM

Thanks Steve!! I appreciate the help you've given me thus far!!

MAD4MORGANS · July 7, 2005 3:36AM

LordM---->

<< BTW, M4M, it's "Conder", with an "e". If you spell it with an "o", you're talkin' about an ugly, vulturey-lookin' bird. >>

Thanks for letting me know about the spelling!! This is my first venture to the "Darkside"!!

My friend is kindofa vulturery looking guy and he says he's an endangered species as well!! The place to redeem the token sounds logical and maybe someone witht he D&H book can pitch in!!

Thanks!!

AuldFartte · July 7, 2005 4:11AM

Many, many Conders are edge lettered, usually with the names of the places (as said earlier) they could be redeemed. There are varieties of several edges, too, but I'm not sure about the Wilkerson pieces. I'm re-arranging some rooms and I can't find my D&H for some strange reason

cosmicdebris · July 7, 2005 4:15AM

What other lettering or words are on the obverse and reverse?

MAD4MORGANS · July 7, 2005 5:30AM

Thanks!!

The Obverse only says "IOHN WILKERSON IRON MASTER"

The Reverse says HALF PENNY and the date is 1791.

The Reverse has a man sitting next to a workbench swinging a hammer with his right arm and with his left arm steadying whatever he's about to hit.

Like I mentioned earlier you can only see the top half of the letters on the coins edge but here's the best I can do:

R I AEIDY SNEDSHWI WIIIEY BERSHAM

Thanks for any help solving this puzzle!!

lordmarcovan · July 7, 2005 5:53AM

His first visit to the Darkside, and I correct the guy's spelling.

How's that fer hospitality, huh?

cosmicdebris · July 7, 2005 6:01AM

It appears to be a Warwickshire/Wilkenson Token. The edge reads: WILLEY SNEDSHILL BERSHAM BRADLEY. This token has many varieties but from your info I would guess it's D&H number is somewhere from 390 to 394. I would need good images for a closer determination. Depending on the final outcome this could be common or very rare.

MAD4MORGANS · July 7, 2005 7:16AM

CONDER IS A COIN CONDOR IS A BIRD!!
CONDER IS A COIN CONDOR IS A BIRD!!
CONDER IS A COIN CONDOR IS A BIRD!!
CONDER IS A COIN CONDOR IS A BIRD!!
CONDER IS A COIN CONDOR IS A BIRD!!
CONDER IS A COIN CONDOR IS A BIRD!!

Thanks for all your help!! Now I know when I need to be "ENLIGHTENED", I need to come over to the "DARKSIDE"!!

I will try to get some way to photo the coin. Best I can do is using my QX5 computer microscope. The coin is at a friends shop right now and may get it tomorrow beofre the hurricane hits if a microscope shot will work.

Conder101 · July 8, 2005 1:56PM

One other comment, if he is right about the name on the obverse being spelled with an E then it is also one of the contemporary counterfeits of John Wilkinsons extensive series of tokens.

MAD4MORGANS · July 9, 2005 2:26PM

Photos attached to the original post. Thanks for the help you've given so far!!

cosmicdebris · July 9, 2005 7:41PM

Entirely different piece than I first thought. This is a D&H 446D. The reverse is Vulcan seated and it is a common token.

Sylvestius · July 9, 2005 7:48PM

<< Thanks for all your help!! Now I know when I need to be "ENLIGHTENED", I need to come over to the "DARKSIDE"!! >>

Be careful it's addictive... if you ever see a gothic florin then you're doomed. How many litesiders have fallen because of those. Or maybe it was the gothic crown that did the damage?

MAD4MORGANS · July 9, 2005 9:48PM

Thanks Bill and all you others that helped figuring this one out !!

<< Be careful it's addictive... if you ever see a gothic florin then you're doomed. How many litesiders have fallen because of those. Or maybe it was the gothic crown that did the damage? >>

That's all I need!!

I wonder what the divorce rate is of "Lightside" versus "Darkside" coin collectors?? God forbid I should push my luck and collect both!!

So what DOES a Gothic Crown or Florin look like??

cosmicdebris · July 9, 2005 10:58PM

<< Thanks Bill and all you others that helped figuring this one out !!

So what DOES a Gothic Crown or Florin look like??

>>

You're welcome

Gothic florin:

AuldFartte · July 10, 2005 1:26AM

'nuther Gothic Florin ...

MAD4MORGANS · July 10, 2005 2:07AM

These are beautiful and appear to be "ART". I hate to say it but they make the majority of our U.S. coins look like "Plain Janes". I really love the detail!!

Did they have any problems like die doubling, breaks, and clashes? I would imagine if they did, they would be considered culls.

It looks like a coin fit for a King or in this instance a Queen.

Conder101 · July 10, 2005 4:11AM

Gothic Crown (not a particularly nice one)

Sylvestius · July 10, 2005 5:18AM

<< These are beautiful and appear to be "ART". I hate to say it but they make the majority of our U.S. coins look like "Plain Janes". I really love the detail!!

>>

They make alot of the other British coins look like Plain Janes too!

Gothic florins (aka two shilling pieces, almost the size of a half dollar) were produced from 1851-1887 (so they were around for a while). The nicer crowns (five shilling pieces size of a Morgan dollar) were one offs minted in 1847, mintage of 8000.

Nice coins and they very rarely fail to attract liteside attention.

boz · July 10, 2005 6:56AM

<< WILLEY SNEDSHILL BERSHAM BRADLEY >>

Also these refer to the areas Wilkenson had his Iron Foundries

AlaBill · July 10, 2005 7:07AM

Those Gothic florins are really attractive. As I see more and more of these darkside coins, I find myself reading this forum more and more.

Help, I might me going darkside....

Conder101 · July 10, 2005 5:17PM

Sure, we'll be happy to help you go Darkside.

Sylvestius · July 11, 2005 2:59AM

<< Those Gothic florins are really attractive. As I see more and more of these darkside coins, I find myself reading this forum more and more.

Help, I might me going darkside.... >>

I think now would be a good time to post a City View Thaler. I knew a liteside collector once who had gone from the 1950s to 2004 without buying any darkside coins, until someone posted a City View Thaler. That was it, he had to have one.

We corrupted him! Yay!

Conder Token Questions-Need Darkside Help-Photos attached (sort of)

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