Crossover and resends to PSA results...

goudeygold

First part is a follow up on crossover attempted earlier this year.

Bought a GAI 6 #274 1938 Goudey Joe-Dimaggio. The card looked like a low end 6. I sold it to another person whom had me attempt to cross it over to a PSA 6 holder in the GAI case since I could do it in person at a show prior to sending it to him. I did the same day grading minimum of 6 in the GAI holder. PSA rejected it. Joe Orlando told me himself that the top corner was a bit too soft and the card was more inline with a 5. He was nice and supposedly spoke with the grader to see if the grader felt this was indeed the reason for the failed crossover. He then in no certain words said that in some cases the results may be different if the card was "raw" but in this case the corner could clearly be seen so it wouldn't be any benefit to the grader having it out of the case. Well, to make a long story short, the buyer ultimately cracked the card out of the GAI holder and sent it in again to PSA. Low and behold it indeed came back in a PSA 6 holder.

conclusion: The GAI bias is indeed there, OR PSA is simply not going to take ANY risk in direct crossovers.


As for my most recent raw submission... I gladly received a sport king PSA 7 Ace Bailey that I got raw off of ebay, as well as a PSA 7 36 Goudey Cochran, a few PSA 5 36 goudeys, and a few PSA 6 36 Goudeys. All were raw off of ebay. Very good pre-war results.

I again looked over my beloved 38 Goudeys and found 2 PSA 6s that simply seemed strong enough to warrant a 7, or atleast essentially no risk of getting bumped down to a 5. One was a very strong 7 after cracking and inspecting. It actually wouldn't look out of place as an 8. It did indeed come back a PSA 7. The second card looked just as strong, with ZERO toning. However upon raw inspection there was a touch of paper seperation on one edge. Not a corner, but an edge. PSA knocked it down to a 5.

In conclusion, I am glad to take a 7 and a 5 over two 6s. I may try resubmitting the 5 again, but i'm not sure. So as for cracking PSA and sending back to PSA I've had:

2 to a 3 (+1)
2 to a 5 (+3)
3 to a 4 (+1)
5 to a 5 (-)
5 to a 5 (-)
6 to a 7 (+1)
6 to a 5 (-1)

Still very much worth the resubmission shot when your dealing with scarce pre-war issues with low POPs. Comments? Anyone else doing this and can share their results?

GG

envoy98

a 2 to a 5? That's amazing!

I've seen lots of grades either cross exactly or even bump a half to a full grade when taken out of the GAI holder. It seems to be the norm. Sometimes you'll get a drop either because it was simply an eye appeal issue and one grader thought it looked a tad nicer than another, or one grader found something the other didn't see, it happens...

I've had great luck crossing GAI cards over to PSA as well, just not in the GAI holder. I deal mostly with that modern crap, but I've had several 9's jump to 10's, every single 9.5 but one came back a 10. I did have a couple 8.5's drop to 8's that I thought were solid 9's but sometimes I think if you send in a stack of stuff that looks that good they just can't give every card a 10. I'd love to know if someone has ever gotten back a sub of 20+ cards all in 10's. That would really be impressive!

At any rate, I think you've done fantastic so far.

jrdolan

<< <i>(Joe Orlando) then in no certain words said that in some cases the results may be different if the card was "raw" >>


I didn't think it would ever be said out loud, but it confirms what I believe, that a GAI holder doesn't stand much chance in the PSA grading room. If the card is just too sharp to reduce the grade with a straight face, there is always "evid. trimming" to fall back on. Twice I have received "evid. trimming" from PSA on a GAI-slabbed card. Both times I resubmitted raw and they were holdered by PSA -- and one of them received a half-point boost. The trimming was obvious to the grader in the GAI holder, but then with nothing to hamper a close examination, the indications of trimming disappeared.

PSA may have legitimate grievances against those who jumped ship to start GAI, but it's really not fair to take collectors' money for the "crossover" service if a GAI holder is a kiss of death. Speaking for my own experience, SGC and even BVG are treated much more objectively in Newport Beach.

Dallas88

Very nice info guys - I have been debating the "crack and submit" thing for awhile.

After reading this, and other opinions on the board, I definitely will crack my GAI's before submitting!

...Dal

Mac53

GG--the 2 to 5 is mind boggling. If there any sensible explanation? Anybody have an opinon on whether I should submit 2 BCCG 10s for crossover or submit them raw?

KansasJayhawk

What is the best way to crack these GAI holders these things look tough no real seam on the sides like PSA/SGC....I have been reluctant to try and crack them so far. I have 2 GAI and 2 SGC holders at PSA right now for crossover I will post results once I get them back. Previously I had cracked two SGC 60 Goudey's that looked like dead on 5 or better and both came back PSA 4.....so I have been hesitant to crack and submit. I figure if I submit in holders and they come back I can resell and recoup my costs (minus PSA fees).

Stone193

Good report GG
I have a few I would like to resubmit but am very lazy!

mike

MajorDanby

thanks for the info. i have had minimal success cracking and submitting SGC cards. I define success as an increase in grades. All the cards i have submitted to PSA that were in SGC holders either went down or stayed the same. Of course, staying the same is a good thing given that a PSA holder will command more on the market...but the ones that went down were a killer and i took a substantial loss in dough.

i might try to do some GAI cracking and crossovers...

shagrotn77

Has anyone here ever sent in a card in a GAI holder and received an equal or better grade from PSA?

bobbybakeriv

My SGC experience has been nearly identical to MajorDanby's.....far from satisfactory. My most recent SGC crossover subs were SGC 88, SGC 92, and SGC 96 and crossed to PSA 8, PSA 8 (ST), and PSA 7. BTW - I cracked them out of their SGC cases prior to submission. -

aro13

~"Has anyone here ever sent in a card in a GAI holder and received an equal or better grade from PSA?"~

Small sample but I sent in two cards in their GAI holders that I probably over examined to be certain. Also, I bought these cards at a show so I was examining them in person as opposed to on a scan.
1986 Fleer Michael Jordan rookie GAI 8 to PSA 8
1986 Fleer Patrick Ewing rookie GAI 9 to PSA 9

My problems have been cracking and submitting the GAI cards (that I have bought off ebay). I have had little to no success doing it that way.

EagleEyeKid

I think Aro's the only one with success even though it's a small order while still in the holder.
Haven't read/seen any other case while still in the holder. I simply won't
do it because of everything I've read regarding this issue. I've hadl great
success cracking the GAI holder, or simply pulling out the card from their Raw Review
and submitting them. Some came back in the same grade (under 10%), and the rest
were all a grade higher. I've sent about 40 GAI 10s to SGC requesting only to cross over
only if it's a 100 and received a total of 11 back in SGC 100....the rest didn't meet the minimum.
I just cracked open 5 more GAI 9.5 and sent it to beckett along with 5 regular cards for a 10 day
turnaround. I'll find out next Monday to see how they fair.

goudeygold

The card that went from a 2 to a 5 had literally a pinpoint spot of paper loss on the front. The first grader saw it and automatically dropped it to a 2 regardless of how nice the rest of the card was. The second time around the grader obviously didn't think the pinpoint paper loss was significant or missed it altogether.

GG

ndleo

I sent 20 holdered cards to PSA for crossover when the service was first offered. I selected that only the equivalent or higher grade be crossed over. Only 10 get reholdered (8 BGS and 2 SGC), the rest were sent back (6 GAI, 3 BGS, 1 SGC). I sent the other 10 back in as part of a larger raw submission: 8 stayed the same, 1 went up (BGS 6 to PSA 8), and 1 went down (SGC 9 to PSA 6). Interesting that all of the GAI cards cross overed the second time. The card that went up was a 1971 Topps Mean Joe Greene RC, it was graded by BGS before the BVG service came out.

IMHO - Unless it is a high dollar card to begin with, you are better off cracking and submitting. To me the crossover service is only useful if you have a $1000 card and want another opinion.

Also I think the crossover service will naturally limit your chances of getting a higher grade. How would it look if a SGC 9 became a PSA 10 under the cross over service? It would be an admission that someone else has a higher grading standard.

Onlypsahockey

What do you guys do with the flips when you crack and resubmit? Especially the PSA flips. If you don't turn them in to PSA you're blowing the whole purpose of the pop report and in essence lowering the value of your cards. Please tell me you send the flips back.

JMO, Bob

goudeygold

Someone from the coin forum said PSA buys the flips back for 50 cents or something to try to keep the pop reports accurate. I don't know if PSA buys the flips from the cards or not. so yea, on vintage I guarantee the pop reports are probably false high across the board.

GG

phreakydancin

<< <i>To me the crossover service is only useful if you have a $1000 card and want another opinion. >>

...which makes SGC's crossover service useless. They are no longer doing crossovers for cards worth more than $500. They are not willing to risk damaging expensive cards when cracking them out of competitors' holders.

CDsNuts

This is incredible to me- If I were a grading company, I would do everything I could to get cards out of my competitor's holders and into mine (if they are authentic and unaltered). First of all you're making yourself more prevalent in the market, thus increasing your brand name. 2nd of all you're getting paid for it. Seems like a no-brainer to me. I'm not saying that they should bend their grading standards to cross cards over, but they should by no means be tougher on cards in other slabs.

Lee

KansasJayhawk

As promised.....grades posted today. Cards were submitted in their holders.... #9 and #21 were SGC 60's one crossed one did not, #141 and #186 were GAI 5's that crossed, I am pleased overall and got better results than last time I cracked and submitted.

1 12195027 1933 GOUDEY 141 RAY BENGE N/A 5
2 12195028 1933 GOUDEY 186 JOHN SCHULTE N/A 5
3 12195029 1933 GOUDEY 21 PHIL COLLINS N/A M/G
4 12195030 1933 GOUDEY 9 DAVE HARRIS N/A 5

jrdolan

I don't define "success" as getting a grade bump in a crossover to PSA. I'm just happy if I don't LOSE a grade or get the dreaded "evid. trimming" sticker (which I suspect GAI cards get as soon as the box is opened).

Besides, if I was consistently getting a higher grade by crossing SGC or GAI to PSA, I would wonder who has the highest standards. I wouldn't want it to be GAI or SGC.

aro13

Lee - There are a few problems with the crossovers. If a grading company cracks a card out of holder thinking it is equal to their standards and than discovers by checking the edges (which they could not adequately check in the holder) that it is trimmed, they cannot put the card in their holder, nor can they put it back in the original holder. All that is left is for the company to re-imburse the person for the value of their card.
Of course, many cards in the holders are rejected and the submitter than cracks out the card and submits it raw. The grading company gets the money twice for the same card.