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This is why I buy the coins, not the slabs

MadMuffinMadMuffin Posts: 468 ✭
in World & Ancient Coins Forum
Just found this coin listed on Ebay. It's a fairly scarce Australian ½ sovereign - "professionally graded" by NGC...

Link

The obverse looks VF to me although it's hard to see in the photo. The reverse - well, I wouldn't grade it higher than Fine. The wear is quite obvious. Net NGC grade: XF 45 imageimage

I know that NGC is well-known for their "professional" grading but I still don't understand why people buy the slab instead of the coin. The slab is just a piece of plastic and the company name (whatever it is) is by no means a guarantee that the coin is graded correctly.

Marcel
Ebay user name: 00MadMuffin00

Comments

  • MadMuffinMadMuffin Posts: 468 ✭
    BTW: Why is it that I never see an honest seller who admits that the coin he is selling is graded incorrectly? Probably because there are loads of people out there who don't care about the look of the coin as long as some "professional" people have graded it for them. There is ALWAYS money to make on slabbed coins, apparently. Perhaps I should open my own slabbing company. Should be an easy way to make a few bucks.

    Marcel
    Ebay user name: 00MadMuffin00
  • AuldFartteAuldFartte Posts: 4,597 ✭✭✭✭
    The seller's pics are so fuzzy I can't really tell how that should grade image
    image

    My OmniCoin Collection
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    Tom, formerly in Albuquerque, NM.
  • theboz11theboz11 Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭
    What makes you think he knows it's undergraded. If he bought it from a reputable dealer in a slab because it looked pretty don't make him an expert. Lots of buyers do it everyday thinking they can sell it on ebay for moreimage
    My Medals collection

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  • RedPennyRedPenny Posts: 63
    Maybe you can ask the seller for larger pictures.
  • CruziCruzi Posts: 460
    A lot of the "Professional Graders" have trouble with the Sydney Mint coins, yet to see one even close to properly graded by them.

    I think this is more ignorance on what to look for than anything else, however incorrectly stating catalogue values is another matter entirely.

    Renniks has a price of $6000 on EF, ($4600 USD), this one is worth less than $1000 ($770 USD)

    Just noticed that the seller is an Aussie, my guess is he bought it "cheap" of Ebay and then discovered the difference in US grades and ours and is now trying to unload it.

    Third party graders are not used over here, they do exist but are very rarely utilised.
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,400 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I guess my photographic talents (or lack thereof...) are not out of place with respect to this thread.

    Seriously, the picture is just bad... very, very bad. How bad is it? Perhaps we need Rodney to take the comic value of this to the next level.

    The biggest problem is not the slab, but the possible difference between US and World grading standards. If this coin is original, undipped and has never been enhanced, it is worth a bid up to a VF level at a minimum. Coins like this are just better off buying when you can see them or have someone that you know and understands what you like see it first to determine if it is suitable for your collection. Ebay can not replace that...

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The biggest problem is not the slab, but the possible difference between US and World grading standards.

    More accurately, it's a difference between NGC's standard (which they apply to all coins, US and World) and the standards used by foreigners.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • MadMuffinMadMuffin Posts: 468 ✭
    Theboz - you are right. He might not know that it's overgraded. I just find it suspicious that he will set such a low reserve if the coin is as scarce as he claims. This indicates that he knows it won't sell for full catalog value.

    But I agree - in theory he could have bought it somewhere and thought that he made a good deal. Maybe he doesn't know how to grade.

    I still find it crazy, though - especially if he can't grade. If you didn't know how to grade a coin, would you go out and invest in expensive coins like this for resale? The slabs ought to make it easier and safer, but if you can't trust the slabs...!

    Coincat - yep, I know that as as Scandinavian i tend to grade harder than most Americans would. Maybe that is part of my frustration. But still... XF 45 is closer to AU than it is to VF. Looking at the reverse of that coin I find it hard to see why it should be so close to AU. This is a machine struck coin that was "born" with sharp details. The wear is everywhere on that reverse, not just on the highest points. It is starting to look slightly "flat" and that is not one of the characteristics of a close-to-AU coin as far as I know - not even by the US standard.

    Anyway what I wanted was just to state the fact that people should be buying the coin, not the slab. Because grading companies, no matter which one we are talking about, can't give any bullet proof guaranties on the grading of a coin.

    Marcel
    Ebay user name: 00MadMuffin00
  • DarkhorseDarkhorse Posts: 1,377
    But if you DO buy slabs then buy the high quality, expertly graded slabs of PCGS.
  • wybritwybrit Posts: 6,967 ✭✭✭
    Why is it that I never see an honest seller who admits that the coin he is selling is graded incorrectly?

    Colin Cooke (ohnosecond on ebay) listed a slabbed coin on ebay recently with an opinion that the slab grade was too high. Link

    Of course, you are 99+% correct in your statement.
    Former owner, Cambridge Gate collection.
  • MadMuffinMadMuffin Posts: 468 ✭
    Wybrit, thanks for the link. This would be the first time ever that I came across a seller who would argue against a slab. Even a PCGS slab image

    PCGS do it better than many others but they make mistakes as well.

    Marcel
    Ebay user name: 00MadMuffin00
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,400 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I always buy the coin and I try to buy ones that are more expensive in person. This one falls into that catagory

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • shirohniichanshirohniichan Posts: 4,992 ✭✭✭


    << <i>But if you DO buy slabs then buy the high quality, expertly graded slabs of PCGS. >>



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