Victim of fraud

thedpro · March 16, 2005 12:26PM

This is my first post and sadly it is an embarrassing one. I had an "opportunity" to buy some top shelf cards at what seemed to be a discounted price. Ignoring the "if its too good to be true...." mantra, I took a chance and bought them. This was a private sale (no ebay or other auction site). I have attempted to contact the seller and retrieved a pittance of what I paid with a message that basically said I will not be getting any more money. I have saved every email that I received and sent to the seller. I even have the account number of the bank that cashed the check. My question is, what recourse do I have. There has to be some way that I can get law enforcement involved with this and either get this guy arrested or get my money back.

If there is anyone on this board who has any legal expertise or experience with a situation like this, please contact me. My email address is Zenlaw007@aol.com.

If the lowlife scumbag who stole my money is reading this, SEND BACK MY MONEY. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!!!!!

lawnmowerman · March 16, 2005 12:31PM

I dont know the first step in doing so but maybe try to contact your local authorities. I am sure there is a branch that deals with interenet fraud.

Matt

GoBravesGo · March 16, 2005 12:32PM

<< <i>the lowlife scumbag who stole my money is reading this, SEND BACK MY MONEY. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!!!!! >>

so is this scumbag a poster here? do we know them? Tell us so we can help you.

Mac53 · March 16, 2005 12:37PM

Believe me, you're not alone. I've been scammed a few times, and I'm sure everyone on the board has taken a few shots. I'm still hounding my scammers, and if I lose any money, I'm going to start hounding the local prosecutors. Somebody recently said they tried to get a US Attorney involved since it was interstate fraud, but got referred back to local authorities. Stick with it and good luck. I'd really like to see some of these guys get prosecuted.

thedpro · March 16, 2005 12:38PM

I do not know if he is a poster.

I have contacted the FTC and supplied them with every bit of information about this person that I can think of. I will wait to see how he responds to my most recent email. If it is an answer that I do not like, I will post his name, address, and phone numbers here so that everyone on this board will know not to deal with him.

thedpro · March 16, 2005 12:40PM

The irony is, I am more upset that the cards were counterfeit then about the money. Now I am sick about the money (multiple thousands of dollars).

The best part about the scam is that the cards were in counterfeit PSA holders. The guy at PSA told me he would get Joe Orlando's input on this situation.

DirtyHarry · March 16, 2005 12:52PM

Good to get PSA involved if the cards were represented as such. They have an equal stake. Keep us posted. Caveat emptor.

IJustLoveCards · March 16, 2005 12:58PM

I think you should post this fraud, if we here at the boards know of this person maybe we can help. I at least will do what I can to try to help you..

Try this website. A member turned me on to this place. http://IC3.gov

hope this helps..if any part of the transaction was done via email or over the internet they will help..

softparade · March 16, 2005 1:06PM

<< <i> Now I am sick about the money (multiple thousands of dollars).
>>

ugh, things like this make me wonder why I even collect. Good luck in exposing the "seller" I hope you nail him

easttexascardsandgames · March 16, 2005 1:07PM

Has the US postal service become involved in any way if so fastest way to get results is to file Mail Fraud charges. Mail Fraud is a felony regardless of the amount and postal inspectors are usually pretty swift in getting results.

If not a call to their local police department may get better results than going to your own. Your local department would have little to work with since the seller is not in their jurisdiction.

thedpro · March 16, 2005 1:24PM

This was done via FedEx.

I filed a complaint with http://ic3.gov/. We shall see what happens.

thedpro · March 16, 2005 8:53PM

The seller (who has many aliases) is from San Diego. Has anyone had an experience like this from someone in San Diego?

Some of the names used:

Elmo Dill
Robert Stuart
John Stevens

I did a search on the internet and found a few addresses:

Elmo Dill
5622 UNIVERSITY AVE #APT 19
SAN DIEGO, CA 92105

Robert Stuart
255 G Street #432
San Diego CA 92101

John Stevens
3575 Island Ave
Sand Diego CA 92102

You should hear the sad story they tell me. My main contact is John Stevens. The check went to Elmo Dill. But apparently he lets his nephew use his account since John does not have a checking account. The check went to Elmo and was cashed by him (he banks with Wells Fargo).

Their ebay screenname is "Steelmetalface"

Email address is "Steelmetalface@yahoo.com"

justanoldtimer · March 16, 2005 9:12PM

I hope PSA can help, can you place a pick or 2 of the bogus cases ??
I would call your Local FBI office and file a report.. Interstate fraud and Forgery plus more I'm sure..
I hope Joe calls the FBI with the bogus cases and all they have a BIG stake in STOPPING THIS SELLER !!!

IJustLoveCards · March 16, 2005 9:27PM

The best part about the scam is that the cards were in counterfeit PSA holders. The guy at PSA told me he would get Joe Orlando's input on this situation. >>

PSA needs to get involved period! If there are fake psa holders with cards being sold this is huge for psa.

ajw · March 17, 2005 2:19AM

It looks like the seller has won three auctions in the last month. You might want to email the seller to see if they have any further information. They might have a better name and/or address for you.

Here's a link to his auction wins Scammer likes 1952 Topps

Mac53 · March 17, 2005 4:15AM

thedpro
Out of curiosity, did the PSA Certification Numbers correlate to the cards?

Stone193 · March 17, 2005 4:44AM

thedpro
Sorry to hear about your misfortune...I do wish you the best.

Can you scan one of the phony PSA holders so we can see what it looks like - what cards did he "reproduce"?

With holders involved also - this is out and out fraud - you may want to consider contacting the police in San Diego near where the guy lives. Also, considering he shipped it across the state lines - and the fact that this is counterfeiting - why not give the FBI a call - ya got nothing to lose.

Anyway - a list of the cards involved would be helpful and a scan if you can.

Again, good luck
your friend
mike

Mrc1932 · March 17, 2005 5:24AM

Here are the last two completed auctions done by Steelmetalface. This guy sure is mysterious. Even the bidders are private.
Here is the link:
E-Bay Link

Bob

justanoldtimer · March 17, 2005 6:29AM

He keeps the bidders privite so no one can warn them..

thedpro · March 17, 2005 7:20AM

To answer one of the questions: Yes, the PSA cert #'s did match the cards. I have since notified PSA and they voided out any PSA cards that this person has sent in. So if anyone bought a PSA card from the seller, check to see if the cert # is still listed.

It may be fun to check his past PSA auctions to see if the cert #s are still there.

Ebay name of fraud seller: Steelmetalface

thedpro · March 17, 2005 7:24AM

I cannot scan, I just don't know how. But if anyone wants to see the cards, I can email a picture of them.

In case anyone was wondering, they were 1952 Topps Mantle and 1951 Bowman Mantle.

I figured they were PSA graded, but apparently I was wrong.

The third card was a SCD graded 52 Toppps Mantle.

Shame on me for being trusting or an idiot. I still can't decide.

justanoldtimer · March 17, 2005 7:32AM

Send them to me and I'll post them here for you

IJustLoveCards · March 17, 2005 7:36AM

I think he needs your email address

justanoldtimer · March 17, 2005 7:38AM

Its the Email Icon on my post

Mac53 · March 17, 2005 7:39AM

Well, frankly, I don't know how someone is supposed to protect themselves if buying what looks like a PSA holdered card with matching certification numbers. I am very interested in any suggestions anyone has on this subject. It probably wouldn't be that hard to figure out the certification number for any card at all.

justanoldtimer · March 17, 2005 7:53AM

Well I stand corrected its not the email Icon.. Pm me and I'll send it to you thedpro

thedpro · March 17, 2005 7:54AM

I am new to the boards and new to the language. What is "PM me"?

justanoldtimer · March 17, 2005 8:02AM

in profile turn on your private message's ( PM )

justanoldtimer · March 17, 2005 8:25AM

Ok heres his pictures he sent..the Seller never sent him the PSA1 52 mantle..

justanoldtimer · March 17, 2005 8:30AM

Cert # isnt listed in PSA ???? WOW!!!! Thats always a Must check before a buy

ranger63 · March 17, 2005 9:51AM

if the holders are in fact fake ill be you best bet will be to sell them to psa for money lost...otherwise the fake cards and holders will still be in circulation and that is not good for psa. as for ic3.gov, stay on them. when i used it i called every week for about 6 months as well as the police in his city and finally i busted my scammer. good luck.

Stone193 · March 17, 2005 11:16AM

That PSA holder looks really good to me...someone is coming up with a really good holder?
I can't see anything wrong with it?

Stone

WinPitcher · March 17, 2005 11:39AM

interesting, didnt we all see these cards 2 months ago on ebay?

thedpro · March 17, 2005 4:28PM

Well, when I purchased the cards, both PSA cert #s were listed and the cards matched the grades. In conversations with PSA, they cancelled the EVERY cert # of every card this seller had graded.

I tried to sell the SCD Mantle on ebay a while back. The buyer (after he paid me) discovered that the card was counterfeit. I had no choice but to give him his money back.

At the end of the day I am stuck.

TO RANGER 63 - when your scammer got busted.... what happened? Did you get your money back, was he arrested?

SoFLPhillyFan · March 17, 2005 7:12PM

<< <i>interesting, didnt we all see these cards 2 months ago on ebay? >>

Something isn't right here. I sense that there is a missing piece to the puzzle.

Mac53 · March 17, 2005 9:30PM

thedpro

How did you determine that the cards were fake?

MorrellMan · March 17, 2005 10:17PM

I'm no simpering sycophant, but it seems to me that PSA cancelling out any known or suspected fraudulent cert numbers is an excellent way to protect us from wiwag-type deals.

Edited to add: Mac makes a good point - that '51 Bowman Mantle looks pretty real to me, down to the wax stains on the back.

Stone193 · March 18, 2005 4:41AM

dpro
I would appreciate a detailed time line on who, what, when and where?
To include which cards are fake and which are real. And, if you knew the one Mantle was a fake, why did you try to sell it on ebay? Or is that how you found it was fake? And, why you purchased a card in an unknown holder?

thanx
your friend
mike

thedpro · March 18, 2005 7:33AM

" dpro
I would appreciate a detailed time line on who, what, when and where?
To include which cards are fake and which are real. And, if you knew the one Mantle was a fake, why did you try to sell it on ebay? Or is that how you found it was fake? And, why you purchased a card in an unknown holder?

thanx
your friend
mike

"

I have a detailed timeline, but I do not have the time to answer that at the moment. I will put one together in the near future. As for the other questions:

1. I did not know the SCD Mantle was fake until the person who won my auction pointed it out. At that point, I gave him back his money (paid and returned via paypal).

2. The only reason I purchased a card in an unknown holder was that it was bought as a lot (PSA 1 Mantle 52, PSA 3 Mantle Bowman 51, and a SCD Mantle 52).

I bought these for $3000. Yes, I know "if its too good to be true...." BUT it was sent COD and they were graded by PSA. How was I to know the PSA holders were counterfeit? Lesson learned. Tuition was very high this time. At the time the PSA certs checked out.

For now, I am the board idiot. I am confident thought, that I am not the only one to fall prey to this particular seller's frauds. Not to mention the countless other frauds that are going on as we speak. Perhaps there are people reading my posts that are too embarrassed to come foward and admit they were taken for big bucks. The only reason I am is to make sure this guy can't get anyone else.

Whale · March 18, 2005 8:20AM

Who told you the PSA 1951 Mantle card was no good? You never even got the PSA 1952 so how do you know it's no good, or even existed in the first place. Did you send the 1951 to PSA to have them determine if it's any good or not? Maybe that would be a good idea before assuming it's been tampered with. If the SCDimension card turned out to be a fake it doesn't automatically make the 1951 no good. Maybe the seller bought some good ones and bad ones and stuck you with the lot. Then you just overpaid for a 1951 and got a fake 52 thrown in on the deal.

thedpro · March 18, 2005 8:39AM

" Who told you the PSA 1951 Mantle card was no good?"

PSA called me when I sent them the cards to be reholdered (the cases were falling apart)

"You never even got the PSA 1952 so how do you know it's no good, or even existed in the first place."

I did receive it. Just no scan of it. Same situation as above.

"Did you send the 1951 to PSA to have them determine if it's any good or not?"

Yes, to be reholdered. They called me to tell me the news.

" If the SCDimension card turned out to be a fake it doesn't automatically make the 1951 no good. Maybe the seller bought some good ones and bad ones and stuck you with the lot. Then you just overpaid for a 1951 and got a fake 52 thrown in on the deal."

The SCDimension is fake as per the Mantle 52 Guide. The 51 was a separate situation.

SoFLPhillyFan · March 18, 2005 10:53AM

thedpro, I wouldn't go so far as to call yourself the board idiot.

We have all made the rookie mistake in card buying. My blunder was purchasing a raw 59 Mays on Ebay. It was a very nice card and graded to a PSA 6 when I submitted it. The problem is that I paid 30% more than the book value and it was raw. Factor in the grading fee and it went up to 40% over. Sold it for 20% less than book, which was the worst mistake, since I now collect 59s.

The experts here will help to avoid you from making the mistake again. That's why they are asking questions.

Good luck. We all hope you can catch the fraud who took your money.

Keith

Victim of fraud

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