AT type question

Bochiman

So,

With all the talk (on and off) about AT coins, and also about NT coins that are just "exposed to the wrong elements" for a period of time, I am wondering something.....maybe someone has done it?

What about buying sulphur and dropping/spreading it on coins?
What will it do? React quicker? More dramatically? Darker?

What about coins placed in an envelope/tissue and then spreading sulphur on the outer layer?
What will it do? React quicker? More dramatically? Darker?

What about coins placed in a box or enclosed container, with sulphur, and then placed somewhere more humid than "normal" (say, above water heater or in the room with the shower or washing machine/dryer)?
What will it do? React quicker? More dramatically? Darker?



Just wondering if others know....have guesses....have done it?

K6AZ

You looking to become the next incarnation of tonecoin2003?

anablep

I tried spreading some sulfur on a junk silver dollar about a year ago and all it did was cause unattractive black tarnish spots within hours. They dipped off but I was convinced that after seeing the ugly results, true NT needs time to occur as well as the correct sulfur concentration in paper/cloth as well as proper % humidity. That is, if the desired "result" is an attractive piece toned by time.

This being said, I have no interest in toning coins for a living. I'm a science teacher and have access to sulfur & thought I'd do an experiment one day.

Bochiman

Eric: No. Nope. Certainly NOT!

Anablep: Thanks, that is what I thought...that a high concentration would actually cause the darkest "toning" when in direct contact.


I just have a curious mind (usually centers around the fairer gender ) that is thinking about coins instead of work at the moment. And, seeing some of the coins and having had some of the questions, that I posted, floating around in the copious amount of space in my head for awhile now, I figured I would ask.

After all, I think my question is more coin-related and better in this forum than some of the junk being posted here lately (like...say....ummm...errr....the "half-cent" parody)?

anablep

Bochiman

Its a good question.

morgannut2

Coins tone in a natural pattern as they are exposed over time to slightly acidic and sulfur bearing water vapor. The key is that the toning is variable as a function of exposed area on the coin's surface as it reacts with the gas. Obviously there has to be temperature changes, in nature--daily, which will cause condensation and concurrent reaction of the copper/silver. Direct contact will cause toning, but the coin will just be blochy all over--often turning blackish rather quickly.

Bochiman

Hmmmmm....

Ok, living in the PNW like I do, I don't have the same temps/humidty as Florida (well, we do have the humidity) but, I am wondering about one of those "aquariums" I think they were called when I was younger...the types that you grow little seeds into little plants in.....
They got very humid.

hmmmm....put one outside, in the spring->summer->fall and put in some silver coinage along with some strips of tissue paper/envelopes and maybe some loose sulphur (the sulphur NOT touching the coins)......

Anyone done THAT type of experiment yet?


(also.....I don't think one can expertly detect AT until they have a lot of experience with NT as well as AT....which, is another reason I ask these things)

Bear

The natural toning of silver coins to what most would consider

beautiful or outstanding is reletively rare. It takes a fortuitous

coming together of various elements such as sulfer compounds,

time, heat and moisture, to accomplish the subtle changes to the surface

of the coin. Some Master Coin Doctors have become remarkable in their

nefarious trade, but even they have limits to there alchemy. Mother Nature

is still the master painter of toned coinage.

MrSpud

It was pretty easy to "make" coins like the ones attached by using techniques not much harder than what you are describing. I just did it to have some examples of AT coins that I know for sure are AT in order to help me be able to detect AT. I did this after I bought a toned coin for a premium that I later found out was probably AT. All it took was a little bit of internet research and one nights worth of experimentation to figure out how to make these. I imagine if someone was motivated they could do much better over time and make more convincing ones or with crescents or target toning. I wouldn't want to post exactly how I did it in fear that somebody would read it and then do it and try to rip people off with AT coins on E-bay.

Bochiman

ttt for the night crew....

I would have thought there were some actual coin doctors here (well, I really do think there are a few) that may be able to comment.
And, I know there are some very smart people who may have more to add too (like some already have).

Deadhorse

If I knew how to AT coins that were truly NT in appearance, I wouldn't post about it here.

I have tried a few "experiments" as well and some of those included sulfer. Sure, I can change a coin's color. But what I can do looks just like what the obvious coin doctors produce on Feebay. I've always dipped them off later.

I don't think amateur alchemists can match what nature does over time. I have impregnated a canvas bag and tossed in a few common BU Morgans but the sulfer concentration is so low to avoid the black tarnish effect, that I doubt I'll see any change for years, if that. It's been 18 months already with no change at this point.

It just makes appreciating the real toned beauties all that more fascinating.

TonedPeaceNut

I was discussing this with a chemist today and was showing him some rainbow toned Morgans -- now he's never done anything with coins, but he has worked in the jewlery busniess and says he might be able to get some of the coins close to what I showed him.

Not that I think he could pass muster with PCGS or NGC, but it'll be interesting to see what he can do. He said he'll play with some coins tonight in his lab and let me know.

I'm interested in what his results might be and how he does it.

Of course if he's sucessful in the slightest bit, I'll post it here and @ ATCOINS.COM for everyone to see.


TPN

clackamas

Sulpur is not the only thing to react with silver. Chlorine will produce blue toning and other elemets will produce other colors.

Bochiman

Ah, but Deadhorse, you are reading too much into my post & question....

I don't care if they are close to NT or not, I really am just curious as to the reaction and what happens; along with what they look like.

Deadhorse

<< <i>Ah, but Deadhorse, you are reading too much into my post & question....

I don't care if they are close to NT or not, I really am just curious as to the reaction and what happens; along with what they look like. >>



OK, generally you get solid colors that cover the fields and raised areas in a uniform manner, which is unlike what an NT coin looks like. I can tell you a quick trick right now and you will see what I mean in just a couple of weeks. Toilet paper contains sulfer, take a single sheet, not a double thick one and cut it to fit around a Silver Eagle only one layer thick. Place coin on south facing windowsill while wrapped in a single layer of TP. Within a week or two you will have a uniformly gold Silver Eagle.

Leave it longer and you will have a brown one, then it just gets darker and uglier after that.

Bochiman

Thanks Deadhorse....
The tissue paper thing is one I actually have been trying on a SAE (more silver than actual coins).
I didn't do the window sill thing, but rather left it in my home/office to see what would happen.

It's been a year now and it is only lightly golden toned. Looks like I should consider that experiment finished and try something else so that they don't turn an ugly color?