Forbes Article-"Sleaze Bay"-Shill Bidding,Feedback,Ect-Interesting Read

MAD4MORGANS

I found this surfing Google about Shill bidding but found an interesting Forbes.Com article talking about this and other interesting what they coin "Sleaze Bay" topics.

In their words:

<< <i>Ebay and its like are a free-for-all for con artists, sleazeballs, shady operators, and outright thieves >>


I figured I'd post it here to share their words with you all!

Forbes Article-"Sleaze Bay"

majorbigtime

It's summed-up in the closing paragraph:

So, as eBay exhorts users, trade on! Or, if you can't stomach the thought of occasionally getting bamboozled, consider this advice: Shop at the mall. If you get ripped off there, at least you know how to find the culprit.

mr1931S

Good educational article. I read the whole thing.

It is possible to buy nice coins, raw or otherwise, from honest ebay sellers. Those waters are infested with a few sharks and lots of junk is floating around, however.

Buyers,

1. READ the feedback before you bid. Try to put a face on the seller. Decide for yourself if the seller is someone with whom you want to do business. READ and understand auction terms of sale.

2. BE a sniper. Set a max you are willing to pay and stick with it. Know how much would be too much to pay. Being a sniper or one who bids in the final moments of the auction, essentially voids the effectiveness of possible shilling for you. Do you really care if another bidder "wins" but ends up paying too much for an item?

3. ASK question(s) of the seller. If seller is not clear in his auction about shipping cost, return policy, etc. ASK about these things and be clear in your own mind about terms of sale before you bid.

Last but not least,

4. EDUCATE yourself about the items you have interest in that you might see for sale on ebay. Don't buy into the hype. If it sounds too good to be true, it most probably is.

pf70collector

The fact that ebay allows multiple usernames under one name only exsaperates the fraud occuring on ebay. They should limit one registered user for each ip address but then that would cut into their profits. Fraud is good for ebay because they profit on it also.e.g. shill bidding only increases the price of the item and thus ebay gets a bigger percentage of the sale price.
The article is very informative especially about bid shielding. I did not know this occured.

Wolf359

The fact that ebay allows multiple usernames under one name only exsaperates the fraud occuring on ebay.

I don't think that's possible to do. If I added a middle initial to my name and used a P.O. Box how would they match me up? I could use
a nickname and a different P.O. Box and get a third ID. Etc. IP addresses can be changed too.

mr1931S

pf70, prior to reading the article, I didn't know about how the bid shielding practice works either.

My opinion after reading the article is that bid shielding is an unethical practice.

mozin

Forbes article makes for good reading. Thanks for providing it.

pf70collector

True ip addresses can be changed. But isn't your IP address linked to your internet provider and this can be tracked. You'd have to change internet providers constantly to get a differnent IP address which may be a deterrent.

mr1931S

A seller who uses "Buy it Now," costing a few cents, can effectively stamp out shield bidding it seems.

fishcooker

I guess the shielders have snipe programs for retracting bids with less than 5 seconds before auction end?



"If you place a bid during the last 12-hours of the listing: You may retract the bid only within one hour after placing the bid (and if your situation meets eBay's exceptional circumstances description).

When you retract a bid within the last 12 hours of the listing: You will eliminate only the most recent bid you placed. Bids you placed prior to the last 12 hours will not be retracted.

If you are not allowed to retract your bid during the last 12-hours of the listing, you may contact the seller to request that your bid be canceled. The seller will have the discretion whether to cancel your bid."

MAD4MORGANS

mr1874


<< <i>A seller who uses "Buy it Now," costing a few cents, can effectively stamp out shield bidding it seems. >>



I'm not sure if the "Buy it Now"(BIN) will stay as a purchasing option throughout the auction. I've noticed when I placed the first bid on an auction with a BIN price, the BIN option goes away and the auction procedes as normal.

Plus some seller's put's the BIN extremely high in case someone who really, really wants it bad enough or maybe they're maybe dumb enough to bite on it.

dwsblue

Thanks for posting that story, very good reading.

stev32k

<< True ip addresses can be changed. But isn't your IP address linked to your internet provider and this can be tracked. You'd have to change internet providers constantly to get a different IP address which may be a deterrent.>>

One can get as many IP addresses as wanted at the same time using the same ISP. You can do this by using a proxy server. There are hundreds of them all over the world that can be accessed for free. Many are zombie machines that have hacked. Others are set up for that specific purpose and you pay a monthly fee. Your machine connects to the proxy and the proxy connects to the web sites and then relays the information back to your machine. You can further obfuscate your true IP by using more than one proxy.

mgoodm3

Thanks for posting the article.

mr1931S

"I've noticed when I placed the first bid on an auction with a BIN price, the BIN option goes away and the auction procedes as normal."

True. One could start auction with minimum being the lowest price acceptable to seller along with Buy it Now. Shield bidding definitely wouldn't work in that scenario.

For shield bidding to work, the extremely high bid by the accomplice has to be retracted before auction is scheduled to end. As a seller, I would most likely be dealing out some "justice" of my own to the retractor and the "winner" if I suspect my auction has been shield bidded. I wouldn't care about the negative that might follow after my interest in justice has been satisfied.

Probably will never happen with me though since I will never set a ridiculously low minimum starting price (99 cents starting bid on a solid $100 item? Give me a break.) nor will I ever set a ridulously high Buy it Now price.

relayer

It will be manufacturers like Gucci that break eBay's "just a venue" defense.

They have people working full time with eBay to get auctions for counterfiet items shut down and are now tired of doing it.

And by "tired" I mean lawsuit kind of tired.

DRUNNER

Tremendous article . . .

I know I'm in the minority around here . . . but this is precisely (and more) why I don't participate in ebay.

I want to see the coin . . . know the seller . . . and spend what little time I have for numismatics on purchasing the cream of what I find . . . not returning junk, writing 'feedback' and worrying about the nuances of being ripped off by a never-ending stream of circumstances.

Perhaps some day (???) I'll experiment in selling on ebay . . . but I wouldn't ever get close to buying something I really wanted using this medium.

DRUNNER

BigAlan

Fraud on Ebay? I am shocked.

mr1931S

"Perhaps some day (???) I'll experiment in selling on ebay . . . but I wouldn't ever get close to buying something I really wanted using this medium."

My somewhat limited experience, as both buyer and seller on ebay, has left me concluding that buying is more rewarding for me than selling. It is time consuming to wade through the vast amounts of shlock and junk to find the few nice coins. Buyer pays no fees, however, and that's a good thing.

Selling on ebay is a lot of work, is time consuming, and with the fees and all, prf**s sometimes aren't what they should be.

I recommend that you buy before you try to sell on ebay if you ever decide to enter those waters.

MAD4MORGANS

<< <i>Fraud on Ebay? I am shocked. >>



<< <i>I recommend that you buy before you try to sell on ebay if you ever decide to enter those waters >>


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(Permission to use this image was authorized by Kellie Strom-Artist and Illustrator
www.sadiethepilot.com/ kellie/toongalx.htm)

thebeav

<< <i>Fraud on Ebay? I am shocked. >>



Next someone will try to tell us they use steroids in baseball !!

Paul

Sandhawk

Next someone will try to tell us they use steroids in baseball !!

Or that Michael Jackson is a pedophile !!

pf70collector

One can get as many IP addresses as wanted at the same time using the same ISP. You can do this by using a proxy server. There are hundreds of them all over the world that can be accessed for free. Many are zombie machines that have hacked. Others are set up for that specific purpose and you pay a monthly fee. Your machine connects to the proxy and the proxy connects to the web sites and then relays the information back to your machine. You can further obfuscate your true IP by using more than one proxy.

Thanks, not to internet savvy. But than what about tracking by ISP? Its a moot point anyway ebay wouldnt do it anyway.

lloydmincy

Shill Bidding, Last minute snipers, false merhchandise. Too much of a headache to me.

Maybe the Good-ole-bourse-floor showings will be the #1 place to buy again?

michael

<< Ebay and its like are a free-for-all for con artists, sleazeballs, shady operators, and outright thieves >>


I figured I'd post it here to share their words with you all!

for me

the main thing is they are all cowards and they can hide behind a computer and laws that protect and favor crooks liars and self contempt

should be face to face selling at a fixed price at a bourse where you need references and membership in somewhat reliable organizations to set up and sell and this might no solve all the problems but it is a much better start and ebay is not an auction venue anyways as there are reserves and buy it now for the most part