Litesiders are such lightweights! Everyone knows the Darksiders have the really big...
lordmarcovan
Posts: 43,530 ✭✭✭✭✭
...coins! 
Here's a piece of Swedish plate money.
The next time you think a silver dollar is big, try hefting one of these 3.38-pound suckers! Or try submitting one of these to PCGS or find a Dansco album to fit it! (Actually, it is almost as big as a Dansco album, come to think of it.)
It's a 1750 2-daler piece recovered from the Nicobar shipwreck. The Nicobar was exporting these as copper bullion and was on its way to India when it sank on the coast of South Africa in 1783. These huge "coins" are not something you see every day. I bought this example at the 2004 FUN show in Orlando, and it was the first I had seen since 1992. I brought it over to Dan ("danglen")'s table, and when he saw it, he sent me back over to the other dealer to buy him one.
Here's what the Second Edition of the Krause Standard Catalog says in its introductory segment about plate money:
The Kingdom of Sweden issued copper plate money, heavy and cumbersome square or rectangular coins ranging in size up to about 13 by 25 inches down to less than three by three inches, from 1644 to 1776. The kingdom was poor in silver and gold but had rich copper resources. The coins were designed to contain copper bullion in the silver value of the coins they replaced, were denominated as one, two, four, etc. dalers in "silver mint", or silver coin.
Although sometimes classed with "odd and curious" money these were legal tender coins of the realm and, although used and exported as bullion, they circulated domestically and were essential in the commerce of Sweden and Finland for more than a century.
They are widely collected, not only in Scandinavia but around the world.
Each denomination is catalogued under the name of the issuing monarch and by the mint mark and/or source of the copper. The latter are important in the rarity and thus prices of the coins.
The pieces are identified by the center stamp, with the denomination, mint mark, etc., and four identical corner stamps, with the insignia of the king and date. Many are extremely rare, with only a single specimen or two known, often only a unique survivor in a major museum.
My piece, the 1750 2-daler, is the most common, with a little over a thousand having been recovered from the shipwreck. I believe the wreck is the source of most plate money coins on the market, as relatively few survived otherwise, most having been melted as bullion. The Second Edition Krause lists it as KM #PM71, and values it at $225 in VG, $450 in Fine, $600 in VF, and $1,100 in EF. I guess these are graded by the stamps. My coin's stamps have good detail, at least Fine, in my opinion, but were not all fully struck. I'm sure that makes a difference in the price. On the back side, which is blank, there are a few faint test hits from the stamping tool as well.
The center stamp, top line reads: "2 DALER", the denomination. The second, bottom line of text is only partly legible due to uneven strike, but would read: "SILF:MYNT", for "silver coins". (In other words, this piece was worth 2 dalers in silver coins). There should be a crossed arrow ornament below the lower line of text in the center stamp, but it is not visible, possibly because of the sea immersion, but much more probably because it just wasn't fully struck.
The four corner stamps have the 1750 date below a crowned FRS monogram, which stands for "F(REDERICVS) R(EX) S(VECIAE)", or "Frederick, King of Sweden".
Bob Laetare, known as "Refrema" on the forums, had this to say about the numbers of 1750 plate money coins out there:
"1750 1/2 Daler 6 recovered from the Nicobar, and the total known to exist is 68
1 Daler 2 recovered from the Nicobar, and the total known to exist is 14
2 Daler 1,103 recovered from the Nicobar, and the total known to exist is 1,135 (This is by far the most common plate)
4 Daler none recovered from the Nicobar, and none are known to exist."
I just thought I'd post this here just to stir the Liteside pot a little.
Here's a piece of Swedish plate money.
The next time you think a silver dollar is big, try hefting one of these 3.38-pound suckers! Or try submitting one of these to PCGS or find a Dansco album to fit it! (Actually, it is almost as big as a Dansco album, come to think of it.)
It's a 1750 2-daler piece recovered from the Nicobar shipwreck. The Nicobar was exporting these as copper bullion and was on its way to India when it sank on the coast of South Africa in 1783. These huge "coins" are not something you see every day. I bought this example at the 2004 FUN show in Orlando, and it was the first I had seen since 1992. I brought it over to Dan ("danglen")'s table, and when he saw it, he sent me back over to the other dealer to buy him one.
Here's what the Second Edition of the Krause Standard Catalog says in its introductory segment about plate money:
The Kingdom of Sweden issued copper plate money, heavy and cumbersome square or rectangular coins ranging in size up to about 13 by 25 inches down to less than three by three inches, from 1644 to 1776. The kingdom was poor in silver and gold but had rich copper resources. The coins were designed to contain copper bullion in the silver value of the coins they replaced, were denominated as one, two, four, etc. dalers in "silver mint", or silver coin.
Although sometimes classed with "odd and curious" money these were legal tender coins of the realm and, although used and exported as bullion, they circulated domestically and were essential in the commerce of Sweden and Finland for more than a century.
They are widely collected, not only in Scandinavia but around the world.
Each denomination is catalogued under the name of the issuing monarch and by the mint mark and/or source of the copper. The latter are important in the rarity and thus prices of the coins.
The pieces are identified by the center stamp, with the denomination, mint mark, etc., and four identical corner stamps, with the insignia of the king and date. Many are extremely rare, with only a single specimen or two known, often only a unique survivor in a major museum.
My piece, the 1750 2-daler, is the most common, with a little over a thousand having been recovered from the shipwreck. I believe the wreck is the source of most plate money coins on the market, as relatively few survived otherwise, most having been melted as bullion. The Second Edition Krause lists it as KM #PM71, and values it at $225 in VG, $450 in Fine, $600 in VF, and $1,100 in EF. I guess these are graded by the stamps. My coin's stamps have good detail, at least Fine, in my opinion, but were not all fully struck. I'm sure that makes a difference in the price. On the back side, which is blank, there are a few faint test hits from the stamping tool as well.
The center stamp, top line reads: "2 DALER", the denomination. The second, bottom line of text is only partly legible due to uneven strike, but would read: "SILF:MYNT", for "silver coins". (In other words, this piece was worth 2 dalers in silver coins). There should be a crossed arrow ornament below the lower line of text in the center stamp, but it is not visible, possibly because of the sea immersion, but much more probably because it just wasn't fully struck.
The four corner stamps have the 1750 date below a crowned FRS monogram, which stands for "F(REDERICVS) R(EX) S(VECIAE)", or "Frederick, King of Sweden".
Bob Laetare, known as "Refrema" on the forums, had this to say about the numbers of 1750 plate money coins out there:
"1750 1/2 Daler 6 recovered from the Nicobar, and the total known to exist is 68
1 Daler 2 recovered from the Nicobar, and the total known to exist is 14
2 Daler 1,103 recovered from the Nicobar, and the total known to exist is 1,135 (This is by far the most common plate)
4 Daler none recovered from the Nicobar, and none are known to exist."
I just thought I'd post this here just to stir the Liteside pot a little.
0
Comments
Ask me no questions, I'll tell you no lies.
Awesome piece, Rob.
Capped Bust Half Series
Capped Bust Half Dime Series
If I only had a dollar for every VAM I have...err...nevermind...I do!!
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Aww, this sank waay too fast. Next thing y'know, it was two pages back.
Perhaps the PCGS could ask their currency grading service to slab those?
You think NGC would use their strip around the plate to grade them?
That would look great as part of an ANA exhibit on the different sizes of money.
Come on over ... to The Dark Side!
Nice find, Rob
Tom
A witty saying proves nothing- Voltaire (1694 - 1778)
An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor
does the truth become error because nobody will see it. -Mohandas K. Gandhi (1869-1948)
Byron
My first YOU SUCK on May 6 2005
<< <i>Cleaned, and AT! do you have any with holes? >>
Cleaned, probably- yes. It's a shipwreck coin, after all.
Holey plate money? Geez... I can see me wearing some nice holey three-and-a-half-pound coins on my vest. I'd look like Hercules after a while. (Or the Hunchback of Notre Dame!)
I remember the first time I ever saw one of those, I asked the dealer "did they forget to cut out the coins?" he told me "this is the coin".
-g
I'd give you the world, just because...
Speak to me of loved ones, favorite places and things, loves lost and gained, tears shed for joy and sorrow, of when I see the sparkle in your eye ...
and the blackness when the dream dies, of lovers, fools, adventurers and kings while I sip my wine and contemplate the Chi.
If you can't attach it to your vest, make a hat out of it. It would compliment the vest.
Tom