Why would you NOT grade an expensive coin before sale.
coynclecter
Posts: 2,111
Well, I read a lot of replies to the poll that show many would have no problem trusting thier own grading when buying an expensive coin at auction. It seems that when a seller offers a 5000 coin at auction it's makes financial sense to save the 30 buck grading fee because the grade would be obvious to all.
Aside from some major rarities that speak for themselves, I would like to hear any good reason (other than the 30 buck fee) why a seller would not have a $1000 or more coin graded before they sent it off to be auctioned. The only one I can think of is that they hope they can sell it to someone who is overgrading it.
Why would you not grade a $1000+ coin before you auction it?
Aside from some major rarities that speak for themselves, I would like to hear any good reason (other than the 30 buck fee) why a seller would not have a $1000 or more coin graded before they sent it off to be auctioned. The only one I can think of is that they hope they can sell it to someone who is overgrading it.
Why would you not grade a $1000+ coin before you auction it?
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Comments
You want to turn it over ASAP, and the $30 you speak of would be a 2 week+ wait. For faster service the price jumps up quite a bit.
You feel that the grade might not come in as expected.
You know there is a problem with the coin that might go undetected.
JMHO
but with the case of many collectors like for example john pittman auction his coins where all raw and he had many put away since the 1960's or before and many unusual rare high vlaue coins so it was exciting and a mystique about it and i am sure maybe the heirs realized that the coins would sell for top dollar slabbed or not and this was a good move as i see many instances of pittman coins bringing prices 7 years ago that the coins are being offered today in holders pcgs and ngc for less than they brought in the auction so i guess many buyers overgradxed the raw coins and they brought more ***due to auction fever so smart move with hindsight being 20/20 on the selling the coins raw part but then again many coins upgraded many times and where sold for two and three times for waht they brought raw at the auction myself i think auction fever with many of these coins at prices that have not even matched or exceeded but lower than what the coins brought in auction 7 years ago
so i guess it all evens out in the end
for me it all depends on the circumstances the market timing the coins the overall condition and waht specifically are they the current demand and so forth etc etc
or maybe this is how the instructions where only auction the collection raw or say a living person wants to auction their collection and they just deside for personal reasons crazy or smart like a fox they want their coins sold raw
usually more often than not it is better to get the coins slabbed duh.......... but again there are always exceptions to the rules
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
and yes as per the below too
Aside from some major rarities that speak for themselves, I would like to hear any good reason (other than the 30 buck fee) why a seller would not have a $1000 or more coin graded before they sent it off to be auctioned. The only one I can think of is that they hope they can sell it to someone who is overgrading it.
Tyler
I agree, these days if a high value coin is not graded, one must be suspicious about the reason. Either the owners feel it will not grade (or it has not in the past), or there is a problem they think might prevent it.
A couple of "old timers" in the coin club I used to belong to wanted to be able to "feel the coins edges not the edge of the plastic"
<< <i>A couple of "old timers" in the coin club I used to belong to wanted to be able to "feel the coins edges not the edge of the plastic" >>
I can appreciate that... as long as they are "feeling the edges" of someone elses coins. They sure won't be touching mine.
An high priced ungraded coin is wrapped in a red flag.
More importantly, slabs are a turn-off to some collectors. Like you said, this is often true with EAC'ers. Ditto for the Darksiders.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
So there you have it, have raw, need quick cash, Auction raw.
Jim
All authenticated coins were once raw.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>I would never pay big money these days for a coin that is not authenticated. Raw is not authenticated. >>
<< <i>All authenticated coins were once raw. >>
And most fakes are STILL raw
42/92
Some people never will learn to grade on their own and need to pay for someone to do it for them. People on here all the time can't even agree with the top grading companies grades, then less those of others. So, what difference does it make if it's plastic encased or not.
<< <i>Some people never will learn to grade on their own and need to pay for someone to do it for them. People on here all the time can't even agree with the top grading companies grades, then less those of others. So, what difference does it make if it's plastic encased or not. >>
Can I get an AMEN on that one?!!! I couldn't have said it better myself. If you know how to grade correctly and you know how to differentiate between authentic & counterfeit, problematic & original, then the slab is 100% IRRELEVANT.
You guys think your so good you can grade accurately grade every time and detect all counterfiets and alterations. You can look through 200 lots at an auction and never make a mistake. What ends up happening is guys start grading increasingly tighter just to hedge against a mistake . Eventually you start calling MS65 coins MS63 just so you don't overpay. Then we hear about how you can find any coins at a decent price because everyone wants GEM money for thier CU coin. How all the auction coins went for "moon" money. Besides, Not every collector has the time to become a grading expert just because they like to collect. Lots of us have other occupations.
Also if your personal preference is to "feel the edges" there's no reason you can't remove the coin once you buy it.
I still have not heard one benefit to a buyer to bidding on a raw coin over a slabbed one.
<< <i>I still have not heard one benefit to a buyer to bidding on a raw coin over a slabbed one. >>
By the same token, however, I have yet to see a benefit to buying a slab rather than a coin. This does not mean I don't buy slabbed coins, just that I see absolutly no reason to only buy slabs.
Jim
<< <i>I have yet to see a benefit to buying a slab rather than a coin >>
1) You are guaranteed that the coin is authentic and has not been altered
2) The coin has a grade which can be sold sight unseen (albiet for a lower price) ( you also won't be as likely to get hosed by missing something under a bad light)
3) You won't need to argue over the grade when its time to sell, you can usually sell by phone
4) It can be sold faster because many buyers can't grade and will only buy pre-graded coins.
5) The coin is protected against accidents such as dropping or fingerprints while it is handled/shipped and while you own it.
oh, let me add
6) easier to claim/recover from police if lost of stolen
7) easier to validate value in an insurance claim
8) easier to catalog in a large grouping
9) easier to support the claim of the wrong coin being sent
To be fair I will list the cons :
It cost the seller 30 bucks more
I'm sure that I will now hear back about the ONE item in the group that you can pick at. As a group the benefits far outweigh th 30 bucks
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
Eliasberg 1876-CC trade dollar raw at the auction: $65,000. Graded PCGS MS65 one month later: $95,000
There's 30,000 benefits for you!
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
Keep up the slab buying!
<< <i>While you fellers that don't have a clue about grading are buying only slabbed chit, us guys that know something about grading and counterfieting are getting the good deals. >>
Hope you enjoy all the good deals on RAW coins. It might not be as enjoyable when you go to sell.
But you also have to understand why guys like TradeDollarNut might buy slabbed coins. Some people just won't ever have the keen eye that guys like you have.
<< <i>us guys that know something about grading and counterfieting are getting the good deals. >>
"Someone has to be a market maker." Slab-Crack Mac
Then it is no fun buying obw rolls! They are raw indeed. What is even better is that I hope to never know the grades in them even after I sell them.
I may consumate a major deal on a very special U.S. cent roll that has NEVER been opened. I will NOT specify the date, but I can assure you it is from the 1910-1919 era. The outer coins are simply stunning.
I bought it in 1969. Took me 1 year to pay for it in full. It was either buying that roll or a very special 1926-S cent in red/brown. I wanted the 26-S cent in red and went for the roll instead.
<< <i>Hope you enjoy all the good deals on RAW coins. It might not be as enjoyable when you go to sell. >>
LINE # CERT # COIN DATE DENOMINATION VARIETY COUNTRY GRADE
1 ----21914264 ---1958-D------- 5C ----------- USA -------MS66FS
LINE # CERT # COIN DATE DENOMINATION VARIETY COUNTRY GRADE
1 21604633 1893-S S$1 USA G04 ..Bought for $1000, sold for $1600 5 weeks later!
2 21604634 1964 50C Accented Hair USA PR68
3 21537130 1962 50C USA PR68CA
4 21537131 1963 50C USA PR67CA
I could go on and on. Remember this, all of those coins you need to buy slabbed were found by guys like me, and I'll guarantee you we didn't pay anywhere near what you will for them!
I thought the conversation was about auction coins over $1000. I'm sure if you buy enough raw coins from ebay for 20 bucks that some will be worth 50,60 or 100 bucks or more. You showed us your successes, did you have any failures? What did they grade, any come back cleaned???
I can name a few I bought in slabs recently,
Linc 09-S 65RD 975, sold 66RD2300
Walk 43_S 65, now 66
1889 $3 AU58 1550, sold MS62 2600
Barb 25, MS64, now 65
just a few
The interesting thing is I too had a number that did not come out as expected, BUT none were downgraded , I still got most my money back, none were Bodybagged, and none were fake or altered, BECAUSE I bought them certified.
I have also had some good raw purchases but nothing over a couple hundred bucks. One that comes to mind is an AH kennedy that came back PRDCAM, it cost me 10 bucks and sold for a whole lot more.
I will only add that I'm sure there are some good finds to be made in RAW coins. Particularly in lower price coins that dealers do not pay attention to. BUT I have looked at hundreds of raw coins in dealer cases selling 500 and over and have yet to find any that were significantly underpriced, there were however a huge number that were overgraded and overpriced.
Happy collecting and best of luck hunting
What ever happened with the raw indian cent discussed in this thread? Could it have been body bagged? Oh, yeah.
Link to Thread
<< <i>Mr. Ksteelheader sir,
What ever happened with the raw indian cent discussed in this thread? Could it have been body bagged? Oh, yeah.
Link to Thread >>
Mr. calgold, that was not my coin.
And oh by the way, why is that you slabbed those raw coins you sold. Could it be because they were worth more that way? And just how many counterfeit Kennedies or Franklins are out there? Has anyone seen one ever? Try buying some raw gold $2.5 or $5 Indians, or gold $1 or $3. Lets see how you fare.
CG
<< <i>Yeah it was not your coin but you thought it was a 66RD.
And oh by the way, why is that you slabbed those raw coins you sold. Could it be because they were worth more that way? And just how many counterfeit Kennedies or Franklins are out there? Has anyone seen one ever? Try buying some raw gold $2.5 or $5 Indians, or gold $1 or $3. Lets see how you fare.
CG >>
Sorry, didn't know I wasn't allowed to respond about the coins I know about. My apologies !
And just how many counterfeit Kennedies or Franklins are out there? Has anyone seen one ever?
As a matter of fact, yes, there was a picture on here last week of a counterfieted Franklin!
<< <i>
<< <i>I have yet to see a benefit to buying a slab rather than a coin >>
1) You are guaranteed that the coin is authentic and has not been altered
Yes, the major TPC's put their money where their mouth is and will guarantee the authenticity of the coin. So, however, does every reputable dealer or auction house withwhom I have ever dealt.
2) The coin has a grade which can be sold sight unseen (albiet for a lower price) ( you also won't be as likely to get hosed by missing something under a bad light)
Why would anyone even consider paying 4 to 5 figures for a coin sight unseen? I sure wouldn't.
3) You won't need to argue over the grade when its time to sell, you can usually sell by phone
There will be just as much arguement over the grade...any dealer who consistanty overgraded his stock prior to slabbing will continue to insist that the coin is either extremly PQ for the grade (if it is a dog in a coffin) or that he got robbed by the TPC and that it should have graded at least a point higher. (If it is mid-grade)
4) It can be sold faster because many buyers can't grade and will only buy pre-graded coins.
You very well could be right here. However, how is a lack of knowlege on the part of the buyer a benefit to anyone other than the seller. Unscrupulous dealers took advantage of unknowing buyers before slabbing--unscrupulous dealers take advantage of unknowing buyers today. What is the difference other than the fact that now when confronted they can claim innocence..."Hey, we didn't grade it. XYZ did!"
5) The coin is protected against accidents such as dropping or fingerprints while it is handled/shipped and while you own it.
Yes, 30.00 ++++ (depending on speed paid for) is a lot better than a Cointain which will do the job just as well.
oh, let me add
6) easier to claim/recover from police if lost of stolen
How, the first thing a thief is going to do is crack it out and get rid of the serial number.
7) easier to validate value in an insurance claim
Only if you can convence your agent that the coin is worth more than it was originally invoiced for.
8) easier to catalog in a large grouping
Not too sure how this would be true, but I will grant this one
9) easier to support the claim of the wrong coin being sent
Only if being bought strictly from a pic...see item 2.
To be fair I will list the cons :
It cost the seller 30 bucks more
I'm sure that I will now hear back about the ONE item in the group that you can pick at. As a group the benefits far outweigh th 30 bucks >>
Note, bold is not for emphasis but only to differentiate from OP
Jim