Coinshopophobia

jdp2

Anybody else as paranoid about these guys as I am? How are you supposed to find what you are looking for at shops or shows? Those guys have wayyyy more knowledge than I can possibly obtain. You may be able to cherrypick their stash of wheat pennies, for better specimens, but anything of any value will have already been pulled, slabbed and marked up.

I was in a shop on Friday and asked if he had any 1964 proof sets and his question back to me was, "Are you looking for Accented Hair Kennedys?". He said he had picked those out already and had them put aside and those sets were $49 each. I didn't even bother looking at them.

Kind of the same thing with his Jefferson nickels. I have a completed album and would like to upgrade as much as possible. All he had was a complete set of MS nickels for $395. I passed on that as well.

I think they can smell a "sucker" and I am sure my paranoia goes back to being 13 years old and going to the only coin shop in town. That owner was a very respected numismatist, who died a few years ago, but I still have some of the CRAP he sold me. Its been 30 years but I spent more $ than I should have with very little to show for it even now.

mrearlygold

I think they can smell a "sucker" and I am sure my paranoia goes back to being 13 years old and going to the only coin shop in town. That owner was a very respected numismatist, who died a few years ago, but I still have some of the CRAP he sold me. Its been 30 years but I spent more $ than I should have with very little to show for it even now. >>










Goes to show he wasn't that smart afterall.

Tom

TerrapinWill

I thought coin shops might be fun, good place to find a nice coin. but the ones in my area are basically crap. They sell overgraded junk at high mark-ups. They all sell slabbed coins well above what you can find on Ebay. Many dealers around here even have coins in NTC slabs, which are also over priced. The local shows aren't any better. I went to a few hoping to find some nice raw Morgans that wereeither spot on or slightly undergraded. Well no such luck. Just lot's of overpriced common date crap.

Makes me wonder where one goes to find any decent values.

pharmer

One key may be to let the shop know what you are looking for in advance. I can't get to a shop very often , but when I plan to, I call a couple days ahead and tell them what I am interested in and if they have it in stock. If the answer is yes, I say I will be in on a certain day and approx time, and they offer to have a selection ready. It saves us both time, and I think it gets them thinking about showing the good stuff. They have time to consider their approach. I really think I am seeing better stuff than when I used to just pop in out of the blue when they might be busy with others. I get more time with the owner/key employees that way as well.

airplanenut

You just have to know what you're doing--plenty can be cherrypicked from dealers, and deals can be had. I picked up an 1853 ANACS MS62BRN large cent a few weeks ago for $135... usually they're dull, but this one was a nice glossy chocolate brown... and priced at the AU level. Usually those run $175 and up. Deals are there if you look.

Plus, I love going to shops--the more I can look at, the better!

Jeremy

BigGreek

It's been said many times. The purpose of coin shops is not sell
coins but to buy up estates and bullion from unsuspecting little
old ladies at way below market. I recommend shows and online
auctions.

TheRaven

I think some help is to get to know the people that own the stores a little bit this way they will be more likely to help you with things.

This might take awhile and multiple trips to the stores and purchasing a few select things but it should happen.

The only thing I have a hard time with in the coin is listed at $375 and the dealer/owner wants an offer, what is a reasonable offer to make and what is so low that it is insulting.

I would say make a list of certain things you want and find out everything you can about them, look and try and figure out what the 64 accented hair kennedy is.

pharmer

Raven, I think the only way to find out what he will take is to make a low ball offer, something that to you would be a bargain. An experienced businessman probably won't be insulted at all, he's heard it all. If he takes the offer, you feel good. If he counters, you have more info.

DaveG

Raven,

What I do when a dealer wants an offer is to check the Grey Sheet. You might also want to check the Blue Sheet (if the coin is on it).

Generally speaking, the Blue Sheet will show the lowest price a dealer would get in an inter-dealer, sight-unseen, transaction, while the Grey Sheet should show what the coin would fetch in an inter-dealer sight-seen transaction.

For example, if your dealer usually sells coins at or about Trends (Coin Values) prices, but wants an offer from you, a low end offer might be the Grey Sheet price (or a bit less). At least you'll be in the right ball park. (At the least, you'll be offering more than what the dealer would get if he sold the coin at wholesale to another dealer.)

CUEBALL

I feel like I have been suckered a few times to but there are good dealers out there, I have found some.A lot of the times we just buy junk before we don't know any better, I know that I have bought my share but it's all part of the schoooling.If I didn't like collecting so well there are many times I probably would have quit.

mirabela

My favorite dealers are guys who do shows but don't have brick & mortar shops. Especially the very part-time guys whose inventory includes stuff from their own collections from way back. When I get home I'll post a pic of the surprisingly excellent 20c piece I got from such a dealer this morning for $50. These guys' stuff hasn't been picked over and picked over and picked over quite like most shops.

DHeath

Jdp2,

The problem is really the point at which you ended your conversation. When he told you about the AH's, you should have asked to look, and told him you also liked the cameo stuff and would like to find a nice coin raw. Tell him you don't mind paying a fair price, but you want a nice coin. Then look.

One of my local guys is a pawn and coin, and the owner is pretty impatient. I went in and asked to see the proof sets 64-71 and he asked me how many I wanted to buy. I told him as many as he had that contained nice cameo halves. He got really angry and told me he had no time for cherrypickers and the nice stuff was for his regular customers. I told him I'd like to be a regular customer, and didn't want something for nothing. I told him I'd pay a premium for anything I bought. He said "how much". I told him I knew I'd have to pay ask, and he said "no way, at least $5 over ask". I said sure. He could have priced them $100 over ask and it wouldn't have mattered. It would only have limited what I'd have purchased. I bought a dozen sets. He was happy, and so was I. If I can pick the sets I want, the only question becomes yes or no at the established price. We still do business.

jdp2

Dheath - you are correct, I should have looked at the sets anyway. At the time he said he had pulled the AH sets out I didn't think about cameos. I doubt he would have any cams or dcams but if he did it certainly would have been worth looking. Good point.

relayer

<< <i>I think they can smell a "sucker" and I am sure my paranoia goes back to being 13 years old and going to the only coin shop in town. That owner was a very respected numismatist, who died a few years ago, but I still have some of the CRAP he sold me. Its been 30 years but I spent more $ than I should have with very little to show for it even now. >>



Hey I think we lived in the same town

Russ

<< <i>If I can pick the sets I want, the only question becomes yes or no at the established price. >>



Ditto. Don't be shy about telling the dealer point blank that you're willing to pay a premium for the chance to find some good stuff. Fact is that the sets likely came in over the counter back of bid anyway. Dangle a quick double and grumpy dealers frequently become smiley dealers.

I negotiated back and forth with a local dealer on a tasty 1964 proof set. He started at $70, I started at $20, we landed at $50 - five times Greysheet, so he made an obscene profit and was happy. Of course, it became an NGC PR69UCAM that I sold for $550.

Russ, NCNE

Jody526

I think that it is obvious, that the key to being sucsessful, in this hobby, is having a better than average amount of knowledge in your area of interest.

No dealer can stay in business if he doesn't know the value of his inventory. Likewise, no collector can expect to get a bargain if he doesn't know the value of his interests.

Personally, I don't mind paying full retail for something I really want. On the other hand, I very much enjoy getting a bargain, on a coin, because I know something the seller doesn't.

TheRaven

So the old trick is the true answer.....

Knowledge is the king.....

DHeath

The other thing that's true, at least in my limited experience, is that dealers don't mind buyers, they only mind the ones they think are after something for nothing. They don't usually care what a proof coin would holder as, or what it might sell for. They're not going to break up sets and submit. They just don't want to give away cherry stuff and not participate. It's OK with me. I'll do the looking and submitting, and pay a small premium.

carl

I too had a coin shop nearby when I was a kid. He never cheated me on anything. Always asked if I could afford something, showed me different books and papers on prices, helped me understand mintages and quality. He was actually a great guy and now 50 years later I wish he was still there. Today almost every coin dealer I've met or seen was probably a used car saleman at one time. At coin shows around here, and we have them several times a month, most of the dealers I've talked to are well educated on coins and expect you to pay for thier education as well as the coins. Stores that sell coins and/or have a hobby counter are reallly high because you have to pay for thier rental location and in some big stores the prices are per square foot of space your using. Don't know if you have any flea markets around but there is one here with about 3 or 4 coin dealers and they are all really honest, cheap and will help you out leaning if you can spend the time. I've bought the greatest amount of my coins from those places.

greymars

Had a "bad" experience last week at local coin shop..also my coin has been waiting to be sent to PCGS for almost 2 months, while he rounds up others to send in with it



Found a great dealer out west, and I have been very happy purchasing through the mail, and checking the website for the Morgans that I need

seanq

My daughter and I stopped by a new local shop this weekend. The store is in a small strip mall with a dance studio. The owner of the store had large hand-written signs in the window above two parking spaces, "PARKING FOR XXX COIN SHIP ONLY!!". I parked in one of the two spots and as I went to get my daughter out of her carseat, the owner came out and asked brusquely, "Hey buddy, how long you gonna be?" I replied, "Well I was coming into your shop, but since you asked, I won't be long at all now." I then snapped my daughter back into her seat and drove off.

Maybe he just caught me on a bad day, but figured I knew other kinder shops where I would rather spend my money.


Sean Reynolds

coinvet

It's been said many times. The purpose of coin shops is not sell coins but to buy up estates and bullion from unsuspecting little old ladies at way below market.

I know you are joking but...I can tell you I have been to 3 shops years ago where that's what I saw on visits there. One is a well known shop near Newport Beach, CA in a strip mall and owned by a well known 'dealer'. Not him but one of his henchmen was paying a woman spot for about 100 Morgans. I was there to pickup a coin I won on ebay and wanted to offer the lady alot more but did not dare say a word. The guy did not even check the dates! She also sold him a ton and I mean a ton of gold/silver jewlery. She was about 85, reeked of cheap perfume and looked the part of the lil ole lady. I was so disgusted I never went back there.

Maybe he just caught me on a bad day, but figured I knew other kinder shops where I would rather spend my money.
Let me know when you find one!!

I cannot think of a more unpleasant group than coin dealers. Not all of course but many seem to have a nasty disposition. That's what drove me to buying more and more at auction and a bit on ebay. I guess that's why so many so called dealers can't make a living selling coins and/or depend on the wife's income.

As for cherry picking dealer's inventory, many have coins but don't know what they have and are afraid of the knowledgeable collector. They have to wear too many hats and suck at them all, these are the dealers I love to cherry pick usually at shows when they are too busy to make up rules as you browse.

BigTarget

That's why I took the name Big Target. That's how I feel when I'm in a coin shop. Have two in the area but don't now enough about it to really judge what I'm being told. And, to put it chairitably, the guys there don't really seem to be "people persons". I hear a lot about finding a dealer you can trust, and I'd sure like to have a place handy that I can look at coins before buying. Strategy for now is to stick with graded till I learn more about it myself, although the first raw coin I bought has given me an education.

Can anybody fill me in on opinions of shops in Northern Virginia? Not just the good ones but the bad ones, too.

TerrapinWill

I've been to four different coin shops in my area, and they have all been unpleasant experiences. Each dealer went out of their way to make me feel either unwelcome or uncomfortable, becuase I said "Just kinda looking for something to catch my eye" when asked what I was looking for. Tried to strike up some chat, but was mostly brushed off. Interesting though, in all of them I was alone when I walked in and alone when I walked out. Not much fun.

MoeSzyslak

<< <i>Don't know if you have any flea markets around but there is one here with about 3 or 4 coin dealers and they are all really honest, cheap and will help you out leaning if you can spend the time. I've bought the greatest amount of my coins from those places. >>



I think you're more fortunate than most. When I started collecting as a kid, I pretty much had to make all of my purchases at flea markets. They were about the only place I could purchase coins that my family regularly went to.

In retrospect, I only recall one truly honest dealer out of the dozens I visited. I guess I'm not too surprised at how many dealers were willing to rip-off a ten-year-old kid. The sad thing is, it's only after getting back into the hobby 20+ years later (and finding this forum) that I realize how ignorant and naive I was.

ksteelheader

Wow, I don't know where you guys go in coin shops at, or if you go into them with a very visible chip on your shoulders, but my experiences are quite the opposite. In fact, of all the different coin shows that I go to, there is only one dealer I don't do any business with.

peg

I visited my 2nd coin shop this weekend. The first was many months ago and the dealer was a rude old man....kinda turned me off.

My husband finally talked me into going to another one Saturday and I have to say the owner was one of the most pleasant people I've ever met. I was looking for 1964 proof sets also. He had a couple that were open, I wasn't too crazy about them. He really didn't want to open any more, so I bought 4 unopened sets...Sorry, Russ and Marty...no AH Kennedy's......Maybe next time...

I'm hooked now!!!

Murphy

I started buying from one local dealer in particular in 1999. He's a grump, but we share a common bond - Bass Fishing. I go in, bring up something interesting about fishing, and casually look over his stock for what I need. We both are in a good mood when discussing fish. I've never gotten much of a price break from him, but we've shared some good fish stories. I have overpaid him for some good coins that after a couple years have doubled in price from when I got them from him. With that in mind, I can safely say that I have never gotten a bad deal from this guy. I can't say that about another dealer in my area. They won't even hold a decent conversation with you. You bring up the topic of Bass Fishing to a young guy in a white shirt and tie behind the counter and he nods his head condecendingly. Oh well. Maybe I should talk about sports cars next time and I won't feel so bad about overpaying for a coin.

Woah! Peg, love that ring!

peg

<< <i>Woah! Peg, love that ring! >>



That's their 2nd Super Bowl ring...when the design on the third is released it will be my new avatar...

ccrdragon

My only experience is a small local shop that has been run for years by the same partners - both of them really willing to discuss coins, the weather, what ever you want to talk about. I have been in there when I was the only person there and when I was just one of several and they (now that I have been there several times) address me by name and know what my collecting interests are - all with out having to ask! I couldn't ask for a better experience. I even took my 2 year old daughter in there the last time and they were joking with her and letting her have the run of the shop.

saintguru

I find it to be a bit overbearing, Peg. Perhaps something a little more relevant to coins....like MY avatar.

peg

<< <i>I find it to be a bit overbearing, Peg. Perhaps something a little more relevant to coins....like MY avatar. >>



Look here busta.......I got rid of the sig line pics, that's as far as I'll go...Got It???

saintguru

Because of MOI??

peg

<< <i>Because of MOI?? >>



Yes....and let's NOT highjack this thread!

hedgehog847

In retrospect, I only recall one truly honest dealer out of the dozens I visited. I guess I'm not too surprised at how many dealers were willing to rip-off a ten-year-old kid. The sad thing is, it's only after getting back into the hobby 20+ years later (and finding this forum) that I realize how ignorant and naive I was.

I had the same experience. As an adult, I can't imagine preying on some kid that saved his milk money to buy something. As I remember it, this one guy was a total greasball, and ripped me off everytime I was in there. I didn't know it then, but I realized it as an adult.

Jdurg

I never really spent/spend a lot of time in coin shops mostly because I'm afraid I'll empty my bank account if I do. When I was much younger, about 12-14 years old, there was a coin shop in my local mall. The guys running that place were great people. They would always try and teach me stuff about coin collecting like what the grades meant, what a FSB was, and a bunch of other stuff relating to coin collecting that they really didn't need to do. They saw that I was a young kid who didn't have a lot of money but had a lot of interest in the hobby. Many times I'd pick up some cheap things like dimes or pennies and they'd throw in a bunch of 'free' coins. Sure they were/are in good/fine condition and are really just place fillers, but I thought that was pretty nice of them. They never tried to rip me off and I don't recall ever paying way too much for something. A lot of times I'd go to buy a coin and they'd knock down the price a bit after they looked at the coin again and said 'What was I thinking when I put this grade on there. Let me knock this down a bit because of.....' and then he'd proceed to tell me why it was knocked down some. Sadly, I kind of got out of coin collecting a few years later as the opposite sex began to attract me a bit more. heh. Also, the mall they were in charges an insane rental fee every month and I just don't think they could stay in business with those fees. I wish I knew who they were because if they still had a coin shop I'd love to stop by.

AgMe

<< <i>I know you are joking but...I can tell you I have been to 3 shops years ago where that's what I saw on visits there. One is a well known shop near Newport Beach, CA in a strip mall and owned by a well known 'dealer'. Not him but one of his henchmen was paying a woman spot for about 100 Morgans. I was there to pickup a coin I won on ebay and wanted to offer the lady alot more but did not dare say a word. The guy did not even check the dates! She also sold him a ton and I mean a ton of gold/silver jewlery. She was about 85, reeked of cheap perfume and looked the part of the lil ole lady. I was so disgusted I never went back there.

...

As for cherry picking dealer's inventory, many have coins but don't know what they have and are afraid of the knowledgeable collector. They have to wear too many hats and suck at them all, these are the dealers I love to cherry pick usually at shows when they are too busy to make up rules as you browse. >>



Hello All,

I've actually seen a shop try to pay BELOW spot for mixed date silver dollars to an uninformed seller. I actually screwed-up the deal, because I told the seller "after he makes his bid, let me see the coins, so I can give a counter-offer"... the dealer then said "well...there are these coins..." (& raised his bid). In the end, the coins weren't a series I collected.

I think all of these comments go to show how important it is to have a relationship with your dealers.

I have always thought the key to cherry-picking, is to specialize in that series. I just can't see a good dealer not letting a (financially qualified) buyer/collector give his/her inventory a thorough review.

-g

ksteelheader

<< <i>

<< <i>I know you are joking but...I can tell you I have been to 3 shops years ago where that's what I saw on visits there. One is a well known shop near Newport Beach, CA in a strip mall and owned by a well known 'dealer'. Not him but one of his henchmen was paying a woman spot for about 100 Morgans. I was there to pickup a coin I won on ebay and wanted to offer the lady alot more but did not dare say a word. The guy did not even check the dates! She also sold him a ton and I mean a ton of gold/silver jewlery. She was about 85, reeked of cheap perfume and looked the part of the lil ole lady. I was so disgusted I never went back there.

...

As for cherry picking dealer's inventory, many have coins but don't know what they have and are afraid of the knowledgeable collector. They have to wear too many hats and suck at them all, these are the dealers I love to cherry pick usually at shows when they are too busy to make up rules as you browse. >>



Hello All,

I've actually seen a shop try to pay BELOW spot for mixed date silver dollars to an uninformed seller. I actually screwed-up the deal, because I told the seller "after he makes his bid, let me see the coins, so I can give a counter-offer"... the dealer then said "well...there are these coins..." (& raised his bid). In the end, the coins weren't a series I collected.

I think all of these comments go to show how important it is to have a relationship with your dealers.

I have always thought the key to cherry-picking, is to specialize in that series. I just can't see a good dealer not letting a (financially qualified) buyer/collector give his/her inventory a thorough review.

-g >>




I believe I'm a little lost to your thought here. If I'm not mistaken, spot is the current selling price for silver. If so, and silver was at $7.00 per ounce, would you pay a seller $7.00 an ounce when thats all you could sell it for?

And, bidding on a sellers coins in another person's coin shop is nothing short of unethical!

And, NO, I'm not a dealer!

TheRaven

Certainly sounds like a good way to burn a bridge to me in that shop.

I have never went over and look at what others where bring into the shop, if the dealer was only luke warm interest wise I think I probably would.

AgMe

<< <i>...I believe I'm a little lost to your thought here. If I'm not mistaken, spot is the current selling price for silver. If so, and silver was at $7.00 per ounce, would you pay a seller $7.00 an ounce when thats all you could sell it for?

And, bidding on a sellers coins in another person's coin shop is nothing short of unethical!

And, NO, I'm not a dealer! >>



Hello K,

Offered spot minus a reasonable % to buy, thanks for catching my error.

If memory serves me correctly, I think he was offering 75%-80%. I might be totally out of line on what a "reasonable" % is, I could see that kind of discount if the dealer had to travel to see the collection, but not when the seller brings it to you. Thoughts?

(unethical) Thanks for your insight.

-g

ksteelheader

Rollerman

The experiences, good and bad, that people have written about here reflect that people will be people where ever you go.

Some of you complained that you were snubbed at the coin store, but then how were you dressed, what did YOU say when you entered the store. Others seem to take great pride in buying from Ebay, but coin dealers are behind a larger percentage of those sales as well, you just don't have to deal with them face to face.

Others complained that they couldn't cherry pick or otherwise pull one over on the dealer. That just means that the dealer is on top of his game. That's a good thing in my view.

As I've written here before, I have 3 good shops in my area. One of the shops has a good inventory, more certified coins than the other two but buying is at the retail level. Another shop also has a good inventory, not usually very many certified coins but the pricing is almost always a little below retail. The 3rd probably has the lowest inventory of certified coins, but is a fun place as there are always collectors in and out and interacting. Purchases are usually at something just over bid.

All 3 make me feel very welcome, and I'm not a big spender by the way. Guess I'm just very lucky to have these 3 shops within a 20 minute drive from my house.

For those who like Ebay, I have bought 5 or 6 coins there. Only one of them would be one that I would have purchased if it were in my hand at the coin store. Just like you would do in choosing a coin store to do business with, I would watch for the auctions that the person/dealer has who sold me that one coin that pleased me and hope other coins would be as good. You do have to know how to grade and what you want in all cases, no matter where you buy/shop.

As far as dealers ripping off old ladies, where are the old ladies going to sell their stuff if not for dealers? There again, I have been in these three stores when they have purchased from the "old ladies and men" and have always heard fair offers. In the past, I have heard more "rip off" stories from individuals who "stole" coins from a trusting person.

As I started this, people will be people and there is good and bad in all of us. I'm very greatful for my 3 coin shops and look forward to each visit there.
Best wishes, Pete

Julian

I am a full time dealer, have a store, and exhibit at coin shows.

Dealers are not in business to get cherry picked. We earn our livings buying and selling and have lots of expenses.

If you are serious about certain items, be prepared to pay a fair price for them. On the rarer items, you may have to pay more than what you think is fair, because it may truly be undervalued.

If you only want to cherry pick, then don't get upset with the dealer. It comes with the territory.

Retail purchasers get the best service. Large purchasers, even wholesale, get good service.

Cherry pickers tend to get the least service.

AgMe

<< <i>I am a full time dealer, have a store, and exhibit at coin shows.

Dealers are not in business to get cherry picked. We earn our livings buying and selling and have lots of expenses.

If you are serious about certain items, be prepared to pay a fair price for them. On the rarer items, you may have to pay more than what you think is fair, because it may truly be undervalued.

If you only want to cherry pick, then don't get upset with the dealer. It comes with the territory.

Retail purchasers get the best service. Large purchasers, even wholesale, get good service.

Cherry pickers tend to get the least service. >>



Hello all,

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of dealers making a healthy profit, they need to stay in business so we can continue to collect.

On a similar note, I have no problem paying a premium when a dealer "finds" something for me or if it's a particularly attractive specimen.

I just think deals can be had if you specialize in a series.

-g

MoeSzyslak

<< <i>I had the same experience. As an adult, I can't imagine preying on some kid that saved his milk money to buy something. As I remember it, this one guy was a total greasball, and ripped me off everytime I was in there. I didn't know it then, but I realized it as an adult. >>


Yeah, I hear ya, Hedgehog. There were a handful of good people I dealt with, but they seemed to be far, far outnumbered by the bad ones. The real ironic thing is, some of the ones who ripped me off were the "nice" ones who always had time to talk and "educate me". I guess there was a reason why they were never too busy.

One of these days, when I've got the time, I'll scan some of my bad purchases (and ones I'm still wondering about) to get some opinions on them.




<< <i>When I was much younger, about 12-14 years old, there was a coin shop in my local mall. The guys running that place were great people. They would always try and teach me stuff about coin collecting like what the grades meant, what a FSB was, and a bunch of other stuff relating to coin collecting that they really didn't need to do. >>


I used to frequent the little coin booth at the Sanger-Harris in my local mall (it was the only game in town), and my experience was similar. Both the older guy who seemed to "run" it, and the kid who was there when the old man wasn't, were very helpful. Sometimes I was there for as long as an hour or two while Mom did all her shopping. I fondly remember drooling over some of the 19th century type coins that I couldn't hope to afford at the time. I never got what you'd call a good deal there (prices were damn close to Redbook across the board) but the grades were honest, and the coins were problem-free, so I never got completely ripped off, either. Unfortunately, Sanger-Harris closed it down by the time I started making ten bucks a week or so.