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Ebay Seller help please- Card lost in mail

Darn it!!!! I sold a card on Ebay, buyer didn't take the optional insurance, card mailed about Feb 1st, I left feedback upon receiving his check, card is lost in mail and now he says, "I understand that you said that you sent the item but i am still out of 30.00 if i don't get a refund or the card i will notify ebay and leave negative feedback. " It's $30. Would you guys take the neg or refund the $30? Not sure if I have any other options!? Ebay Link

Comments

  • if you didn't put delivery confirmation on the item, then I would say refund the money. Since he paid via a check, you don't have to worry about paypal, but I think(unsure) that ebay requires a delivery confirmation #.

    Don't waste getting a negative here, save it for when you are truly in the right.

    Due to being most likely, scammed before, I now put delivery confirmation on every single item. The 55 cents is worth it.
    Running an Ebay store sure takes a lot more time than a person would think!
  • I'm like you King. I put DC on everything I send out within the U.S. Checks, MO, and Paypal.
    .55 cents is a bargain for peace of mind. I've caught too many people saying they never received
    and DC says otherwise.
  • eagle is right. I have had people say they didn't get an item. Then I give them the delivery confirmation stating they got the item that day or earlier, and BOOM within 2 hours I have positive feedback.

    A lot of people know the scam, they get an item w/o confirmation and figure that's it's as good as free.
    Running an Ebay store sure takes a lot more time than a person would think!
  • larryallen73larryallen73 Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭
    Apprecaite your thoughts guys. I have had great luck with everything I have sold always getting to the buyer. I guess I will refund the dough. Makes me mad but I guess I should have done delivery confirmation. Anybody had similar from this buyer roesterling3 saying he didn't receive item?
  • I just received a card in the mail today that cost me about 100 bucks. No D.C., not that im going to scam the guy but jeeeze always use DC. Im about to leave him POS feedback and write him an email and remind him to use DC for his own protection. Guy is a power seller too.
    That little green tag is the first thing scammers look for.
    image
  • If you read the feedback he's left he's had the exact same problem with 2 other very reputable sellers. You make 3 now. To this guy no DC means free cards.
  • Chalk it up as a $30 lesson Larry.
    Me personally; I'd take the neg and then go
    tell him to F himself.
  • some people aren't too worried about giving refunds. Guess a powerseller figures that 55 cents per pop isn't worth it. I have a mere 303 feedback score now. About half that is from selling. When I first selling items, I had two people claim they didn't get the cards within the same week. So I figured, I have my records, I will fight it!!!!!!!!!!! The 1st screen paypal links you to, is the one that wants the delivery confirmation #. At that point, I just kinda laughed and refunded the two people their money. From that point on, EVERYTHING gets DC. Whether it's a 10 cent item or a $100 card. I hate giving refunds!!!


    How many times can you claim you didn't get something before paypal or ebay stops believing you???
    Running an Ebay store sure takes a lot more time than a person would think!
  • larryallen73larryallen73 Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭
    Eagle-
    I want to take the neg and tell him to F himself... plus what if he leaves me a neg anyway!? Then I am out $30. However, I will probably send him the money and hope he leaves me no feedback or positive. Based on what Whale said above I suggest people consider putting this guy on their blocked bidders list... I know I have! roesterling3 is the buyer.
  • I wonder if the idiot has his address done correctly on ebay or paypal??

    Two weeks ago, I had a buyer say that is paypal address was wrong, that it didn't show his Apt #. I told him that his package had already been delivered. Eventually he got I suppose, because he gave me positive feedback.


    Guess us sellers could play chicken with these buyers and see what address they give us. If it doesn't match what's on file, then I would think the buyer would be in the wrong.
    Running an Ebay store sure takes a lot more time than a person would think!
  • How many times can you claim you didn't get something before paypal or ebay stops believing you???

    It's probably infinite and I know Paypal even agrees that there's an onslaught of fraudulent
    claims and it will never end. If sellers do not use tracking then Paypal has no recourse but to
    just give the scammers back their money.
  • Insurance protects the seller, if you cannot afford to eat the refund on an item you send through the mail then take out insurance for your own protection. It is also the sellers responsibility to make sure the card gets to the buyer. If the situation were reversed and the check was lost in the mail you would expect him to resend the check.

    Had your buyer paid with Paypal he would be able to get his money back no questions asked. With him paying by check he has solid proof he paid for it, and you have nothing showing you sent it. If he pushed it the right way he has the stronger evidence .
    image
  • Would it really be wrong as a seller to have insurance mandatory on all items you sell. True it really doesn't protect the buyer, but it would sure help the seller in these situations.

    David
  • Guess a powerseller figures that 55 cents per pop

    You mean people still pay 55 cents for DC.. You can get it for no more than 13 cents if you get it online
    image
  • larryallen73larryallen73 Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭
    East Texas- I hear you and appreciate your thoughts (and even more than that the picture of the chick). However, if you look at feedback he has left for other Sellers he has one time left neutral (last month) and last year left negative... both times the card "didn't arrive" BUT he got a refund. I don't want to give him a refund if he is going to neg me anyway! Seems wrong.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Ever try colecting insurance from the PO? DC is the way to go. I only use DC when sending items to what I think are shaky buyers. 3 weeks ago I bought a 100.00 card from a power seller with a store etc. Charged me 7.00 shipping w/ insurance. Item came with 83 cents worth of postage. I guess with my feedback he trusted me. He took a chance albiet the right one. His loss however is I won't be buying anything else from him again.

    Edited to add: Does anyone else think that the item could still turn up? It has been only 3 weeks. Plus a holiday too. I'd tell the buyer to wait a few more days. I have sent and recieved items that have taken that long.
    Good for you.



  • This is why sellers hold your feedback hostage is for this reason. Makes things a whole lot better in the sellers position. In todays world the seller has no recourse on anything and your correct if your a powerseller who cares. A couple is no biggy. Being just starting over again with 55 feedback and 160sells I put dc on anyone who is fishy. I had a guy claim a card was cracked in a holder which is wasnt. Wouldnt send me a scan NO SCANNER and refused to send the card back but paypal threatened me with suspending my account along with a zillion emails total crock.

    Just my 2 cents Ive dealt with them all. I would say compared to two years ago money comes alot quicker and the bs has been minimal.

    Gator


  • Larry I have stuff out that its been 1.5 weeks so Id make him wait for any response at the moment.

    Matt
  • What would be more wrong though, extreme case scenario but a good possibility since he paid by check. What if he goes beyond Ebay and files Mail Fraud charges even that amount is a felony. Is it really worth the time to fight that, even though he is obviously commiting it himself. He will have a check that you cashed with no product that you will not really be able to prove you ever mailed. I would chalk it up to a 30.00 lesson about insurance and DC.

    If the item is under 50.00 collecting insurance is easy from the PO. You walk in with all the required info, fill out a form and walk out with a MO for the amount last 2 took less than 15 minutes to get paid. The USPS will not consider an item lost until 21 days after shipping.
    image
  • dudedude Posts: 1,454 ✭✭
    LarryAllen -- Do you still have the receipt from the post office? It should have the zip code and the package type and weight. If you have it, you should scan it and e-mail it to him as proof that you did mail his card. That in my opinion, is as good as Delivery Confirmation since insurance was optional and he elected not to pay for it. Also, I would register that card in the set registry. If someone else tries to register it, you can claim it's stolen property and perhaps track down the person who now has it.
  • a scan of the postal reciept is not good enough for paypal or ebay. They want a delivery confirmation #. It might help lessen the situation with the buyer by showing him something, but that's all it's going to do. Insurance is worst than DC, costs more and ebay and paypal only care about a tracking#.
    Running an Ebay store sure takes a lot more time than a person would think!
  • NickMNickM Posts: 4,895 ✭✭✭
    king - this buyer paid by check.

    I agree with what dude said.

    Nick
    image
    Reap the whirlwind.

    Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
  • ebay still wants a delivery confirmation # , even if paid via check I believe???

    If not let me know, then I got scammed!!!!!!!!!
    Running an Ebay store sure takes a lot more time than a person would think!
  • larryallen73larryallen73 Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭
    Great advice by all. THANK YOU!!!
  • ebay still wants a delivery confirmation # , even if paid via check I believe???

    Only Paypal requires some sort of tracking.
    Any other means and the postal receipt is good enough
    which will show the zip code as Dude said.

  • ldfergldferg Posts: 6,742 ✭✭✭
    he purchased an 83d tony gwynn psa from me. he paid and i sent with DC. no problems as of yet.


    Thanks,

    David (LD_Ferg)



    1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
  • Larryallen,
    I would definitely not give this guy his money back. It sounds pretty obvious that he is scamming people who don't use d.c.
    It sounds like you will get negative feedback anyway, so why give him his money back when he didn't get insurance.
    Also it would be a good idea to register the card. I bet he may have already tried to register it if he has a set he is working on.
    Just my 2 cents.
    I am working on PSA baseball sets in 8 or better from 1973 thru 1976. Also Mike Schmidt & Pete Rose sets.
  • agree w/kingraider & dude,send him scan of reciept,buyer had option to purchase insurance: he did not.if he negatives you ,do him one better and say in your negative,sellers beware SCAM ARTIST. why be out the card and your money.
  • If he paid with a check he still may be able to get his money back, even if it has already been cashed. I had a deal where I had a check stolen from me and forged. I was able to get my money back 3 months after the incident. The money was then taken from the account of the people who cashed it. If he reports it stolen or it gets reported stolen by someone else. How do you know for a fact the check the person and the person who owns the account are the same person. I could think of so many scames a buyer could run in this situation that would be hard to detect. It is obvious he is attempting to scam you, but you have no real proof you sent the card.

    My Postmaster says the postal receipt means nothing in a situation involving mail fraud or anything. He is already running one scam, so what is going to stop him from running another scam. Why not refund him and then turn the tables on him file a non-paying bidder on him and file mail fraud charges on him, but you have no proof he even recieved the item. Sure it looks like he is doing this by looking at his FB, but you still have no proof.

    You did not use DC or insure the card. INsurance protects the seller not the buyer. If you cannot afford to refund if the card comes up missing then you should always buy insurance.

    I am also betting you would not be going through this if you had not left feedback when he paid.

    I am not trying to say the buyer is right, in fact it is obvious he is running a scam. However, if he really knows how to work the system then you may have more of a headache than it is worth. I would refund and chalk it up a a very cheap lesson in using insurance and DC. Most people who learn about these things is usually for alot more than 30.00 my lesson was 97.00 that I ended up refunding when the postal inspectors contacted me saying he had filed mail fraud charges on me. I could have fought it, but he had a postal money order receipt showing that I had cashed it, all I had was info showing that he had a history of doing this and the receipt, he elected not to buy insurance. At that time I stated the old "I am not responsible for lost or damaged shipments if insurance is not bought." in my auctions. It was cheaper in the long run just to refund his money and chalk it up as a harsh lesson.
    image
  • larryallen73larryallen73 Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭
    Thanks again for more good advice everybody. Easttexas- Your bottom line is right. I hate to do it but for now on I guess I can't leave feedback right when they pay. Have to wait. That's not cool as you are supposed to leave feedback when you receive payment but I would have a better chance of protecting myself. Oh well.... I am still debating what to do. THANKS again!
  • Larry, I had an incident a couple of weeks ago where I sold an item the buyer had bought about 4 other 50 to 60 dollar items in that time. He turned around and listed them on Ebay for around 100.00. None of the items sold he then mass emailed all of us(which was pretty stupid) saying we had misrepresented the item and he was demanding full refunds or he would file that he never got the item with Paypal and report us to Ebay. After talking to the others we sent him the links to the listing where he tried to sell the item never heard anything else from him. The 2 of the 4 who left feedback when he paid have since recieved a neg, he has been emailing me about 3 times a week demanding I leave him feedback since he paid for the item. All he is doing is waiting til I leave a positive so he can neg me. Too bad ain't happening.
    image
  • larryallen73larryallen73 Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭
    Stories like that make me want to stop selling on Ebay. Not that I sell a lot but what a headache these situations can turn into. Oh well....
  • "dude" is right.

    Insurance was optional on this item, and he chose to not pay for it. Since he didn't pay with Paypal, you don't need DC. Since he didn't purchase insurance, once you mail the card anything that happens to it is not your problem. Send him a scan with the receipt from the post office with his zip code and date on it. Take the neg if you have to, but he will know you are right.
  • TabeTabe Posts: 6,064 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Since he didn't purchase insurance, once you mail the card anything that happens to it is not your problem. >>


    Completely false.

    The buyer is under no obligation to purchase insurance under any circumstances. In fact, insurance protects the SELLER not the buyer. If an item is lost and an insurance claim is filed (and won), who gets the $$$? The person who shipped - the seller.

    If an item is lost in the mail, it is the seller's fault. Period. The seller contracted with the USPS to get the item there and in one piece, NOT the buyer. The buyer's contract is with the seller, thus it's up to the seller to get the item there in one piece. If it doesn't, the seller is at fault and it's not up to the buyer to pay for insurance or anything else. Insurance is there so the seller can recoup their costs after refunding the buyer.

    You can state "not responsible" in your auctions all want, doesn't change the fact that you still are responsible.

    Tabe
  • I cannot find the link, but the State of New York had an interesting article up about online fraud basically it said that buyers should not be forced by the seller to purchase insurance as it is for the senders protection and is the legal responsibility of the seller to make certain the item gets to the buyer.
    image
  • I can see why that would be true in normal business situations but here you are giving the buyer a choice to pay for different types of delivery. It's clearly spelled out, pay a normal price and have seller responsible, or save some money and assume the responsibilty. There's great demand for minimal shipping costs. If a buyer chooses this route he should be the one responsible. All the seller then needs to do is provide proof of shipping and he's done.
  • TabeTabe Posts: 6,064 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I can see why that would be true in normal business situations but here you are giving the buyer a choice to pay for different types of delivery. It's clearly spelled out, pay a normal price and have seller responsible, or save some money and assume the responsibilty. There's great demand for minimal shipping costs. If a buyer chooses this route he should be the one responsible. All the seller then needs to do is provide proof of shipping and he's done. >>


    If you went to a furniture store and bought a couch, would you pay $100 extra for insurance to guarantee your couch was delivered? No.

    If you hired a contractor to build your house and he subcontracted the roof out and told you to pay an extra $500 in insurance on the roof, would you? What if you didn't buy the insurance and the roof leaked? Who would you sue? The guy you contracted with (the contractor) or the guy who did the work (the subcontractor)? You'd sue the contractor, because that's who your deal was with.

    Just because it's on Ebay doesn't make things different here. The buyer has a contract with the seller to get the item delivered in the condition advertised. How it gets there is the seller's responsibility. The seller can offer different methods as far as speed, etc, but *ALL* of those methods come with an implied guarantee that the item will actually arrive in the condition advertised WITHOUT the buyer purchasing insurance.

    Tabe
  • Here. This is from American Jurisprudence, and should clear everything up nicely.

    When the agreement of the parties contemplates or requires the transportation of the goods from the seller to the buyer by means of an independent carrier, it is necessary to distinguish between the contract obligating the seller merely to deliver the goods to the carrier, commonly called the "shipment contract," and the contract obligating the seller to deliver the goods by means of a carrier at the destination, called a "destination contract."

    Definition: A "destination contract" is one whereby a seller specifically agrees to deliver the goods sold to buyer at a particular destination and to bear the risk of loss of the goods until tender of delivery; this can be accomplished by express provision in the sales contract to that effect or by use of particular delivery terms, such as "F.O.B. [place of delivery]."

    There is a strong presumption against the creation of destination contracts, and in the absence of a contract term or trade usage to the contrary, a contract that contemplates the transportation of goods from the seller to the buyer will be interpreted as a shipment contract and not as a destination contract.

    Definition: If the contract involving transportation is a "shipment contract," title passes to the buyer upon making a proper delivery to the carrier. The Uniform Commercial Code provides that if the contract requires or authorizes the seller to send the goods to the buyer but does not require delivery at the destination, title passes to the buyer at the time and place of shipment.

    Thus, where coal was sold "F.O.B. barge," the seller's performance was complete and title passed upon loading of the coal onto the barge. However, where a firm accepted orders on behalf of a manufacturer of goods and had goods shipped by common carrier "F.O.B. manufacturer's factory" directly to the purchaser's place of business, title to the goods, under Uniform Commercial Code § 2-401(2)(a) passed to the buyer at the time and place of shipment. Where the contract requires delivery of the goods to a particular carrier, delivery by the seller to another carrier does not complete performance so as to pass title to the purchaser.

    Practice Guide: "F.O.B.," or "free on board," is a shipping term usually indicating that the supplier pays the shipping costs (and usually also the insurance costs) from the point of manufacture to a specified destination, at which point the buyer takes responsibility. However, legal and international trade dictionaries alike indicate that, under the international understanding of the term, either a shipping point or a destination point should immediately follow the "F.O.B." term to avoid ambiguity.

    The term "f.o.b." has acquired a well-defined meaning in commercial contracts, the symbol standing for the words "free on board." The Code provides that, unless otherwise agreed, the term "f.o.b." means "free on board at a named place," and even though used only in connection with a stated price, is a "delivery" term.

    Comment: The provision is intended to negate the uncommercial line of decisions that treat "f.o.b." as merely a price term.

    Hence, it affects the time when risk of loss and title pass.

    The fact that the seller is to send or ship the goods to the buyer does not make the transaction a destination delivery contract. For example, a contract calling for shipment f.o.b. the seller's city passes title and risk of loss when the goods are placed with the carrier. This conclusion is not altered by the fact that the goods are to be "shipped to" the buyer, as this does not overcome the presumption in favor of a shipment contract rather than a destination contract. Likewise, the fact that the contract refers to f.o.b. shipment does not bar the conclusion that the contract called for a destination delivery.
    image
    This is why lawyers drink so much.
    "Charlie, here comes the deuce. And when you speak of me, speak well."image
  • You can state "not responsible" in your auctions all want, doesn't change the fact that you still are responsible.

    Amen to that. I laugh every time I see this when I'm buying and a little voice in my head says "yes you are".
    As a seller myself, I don't even put this in my description because the statement is false.
  • NickMNickM Posts: 4,895 ✭✭✭
    When the buyer paid by check and claims he never received the item, there is a practical aspect to this - what is he going to do about it. He can leave you a negative feedback. For many sellers, this is met with a yawn. He can sue you. Unless you're a dealer who does shows around the country, he lives in the same state as you, or he lives in California (home of eBay), this is not likely to do him much good, as he probably will not be able to acquire personal jurisdiction over you - unless he wants to sue you in your state. If he does sue you, there is no guarantee that anyone will believe him, especially if he has a history of claiming nondelivery of items. He can file a mail fraud complaint with the postal authorities. If you have a postal receipt showing a package send to that zip code, they will almost certainly close the matter at that point.

    This is a $30 card, not a $30,000 card. The business reality is that if you do not give him a refund, there is not much that he can practically do beyond negative feedback.

    Nick
    image
    Reap the whirlwind.

    Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
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