Ebay Seller help please- Card lost in mail
larryallen73
Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭
Darn it!!!! I sold a card on Ebay, buyer didn't take the optional insurance, card mailed about Feb 1st, I left feedback upon receiving his check, card is lost in mail and now he says, "I understand that you said that you sent the item but i am still out of 30.00 if i don't get a refund or the card i will notify ebay and leave negative feedback. " It's $30. Would you guys take the neg or refund the $30? Not sure if I have any other options!? Ebay Link
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Comments
Don't waste getting a negative here, save it for when you are truly in the right.
Due to being most likely, scammed before, I now put delivery confirmation on every single item. The 55 cents is worth it.
.55 cents is a bargain for peace of mind. I've caught too many people saying they never received
and DC says otherwise.
A lot of people know the scam, they get an item w/o confirmation and figure that's it's as good as free.
That little green tag is the first thing scammers look for.
Me personally; I'd take the neg and then go
tell him to F himself.
How many times can you claim you didn't get something before paypal or ebay stops believing you???
I want to take the neg and tell him to F himself... plus what if he leaves me a neg anyway!? Then I am out $30. However, I will probably send him the money and hope he leaves me no feedback or positive. Based on what Whale said above I suggest people consider putting this guy on their blocked bidders list... I know I have! roesterling3 is the buyer.
Two weeks ago, I had a buyer say that is paypal address was wrong, that it didn't show his Apt #. I told him that his package had already been delivered. Eventually he got I suppose, because he gave me positive feedback.
Guess us sellers could play chicken with these buyers and see what address they give us. If it doesn't match what's on file, then I would think the buyer would be in the wrong.
It's probably infinite and I know Paypal even agrees that there's an onslaught of fraudulent
claims and it will never end. If sellers do not use tracking then Paypal has no recourse but to
just give the scammers back their money.
Had your buyer paid with Paypal he would be able to get his money back no questions asked. With him paying by check he has solid proof he paid for it, and you have nothing showing you sent it. If he pushed it the right way he has the stronger evidence .
David
My All-Time Oakland Raiders
You mean people still pay 55 cents for DC.. You can get it for no more than 13 cents if you get it online
Edited to add: Does anyone else think that the item could still turn up? It has been only 3 weeks. Plus a holiday too. I'd tell the buyer to wait a few more days. I have sent and recieved items that have taken that long.
This is why sellers hold your feedback hostage is for this reason. Makes things a whole lot better in the sellers position. In todays world the seller has no recourse on anything and your correct if your a powerseller who cares. A couple is no biggy. Being just starting over again with 55 feedback and 160sells I put dc on anyone who is fishy. I had a guy claim a card was cracked in a holder which is wasnt. Wouldnt send me a scan NO SCANNER and refused to send the card back but paypal threatened me with suspending my account along with a zillion emails total crock.
Just my 2 cents Ive dealt with them all. I would say compared to two years ago money comes alot quicker and the bs has been minimal.
Gator
Larry I have stuff out that its been 1.5 weeks so Id make him wait for any response at the moment.
Matt
If the item is under 50.00 collecting insurance is easy from the PO. You walk in with all the required info, fill out a form and walk out with a MO for the amount last 2 took less than 15 minutes to get paid. The USPS will not consider an item lost until 21 days after shipping.
I agree with what dude said.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
If not let me know, then I got scammed!!!!!!!!!
Only Paypal requires some sort of tracking.
Any other means and the postal receipt is good enough
which will show the zip code as Dude said.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
I would definitely not give this guy his money back. It sounds pretty obvious that he is scamming people who don't use d.c.
It sounds like you will get negative feedback anyway, so why give him his money back when he didn't get insurance.
Also it would be a good idea to register the card. I bet he may have already tried to register it if he has a set he is working on.
Just my 2 cents.
My Postmaster says the postal receipt means nothing in a situation involving mail fraud or anything. He is already running one scam, so what is going to stop him from running another scam. Why not refund him and then turn the tables on him file a non-paying bidder on him and file mail fraud charges on him, but you have no proof he even recieved the item. Sure it looks like he is doing this by looking at his FB, but you still have no proof.
You did not use DC or insure the card. INsurance protects the seller not the buyer. If you cannot afford to refund if the card comes up missing then you should always buy insurance.
I am also betting you would not be going through this if you had not left feedback when he paid.
I am not trying to say the buyer is right, in fact it is obvious he is running a scam. However, if he really knows how to work the system then you may have more of a headache than it is worth. I would refund and chalk it up a a very cheap lesson in using insurance and DC. Most people who learn about these things is usually for alot more than 30.00 my lesson was 97.00 that I ended up refunding when the postal inspectors contacted me saying he had filed mail fraud charges on me. I could have fought it, but he had a postal money order receipt showing that I had cashed it, all I had was info showing that he had a history of doing this and the receipt, he elected not to buy insurance. At that time I stated the old "I am not responsible for lost or damaged shipments if insurance is not bought." in my auctions. It was cheaper in the long run just to refund his money and chalk it up as a harsh lesson.
Insurance was optional on this item, and he chose to not pay for it. Since he didn't pay with Paypal, you don't need DC. Since he didn't purchase insurance, once you mail the card anything that happens to it is not your problem. Send him a scan with the receipt from the post office with his zip code and date on it. Take the neg if you have to, but he will know you are right.
<< <i>Since he didn't purchase insurance, once you mail the card anything that happens to it is not your problem. >>
Completely false.
The buyer is under no obligation to purchase insurance under any circumstances. In fact, insurance protects the SELLER not the buyer. If an item is lost and an insurance claim is filed (and won), who gets the $$$? The person who shipped - the seller.
If an item is lost in the mail, it is the seller's fault. Period. The seller contracted with the USPS to get the item there and in one piece, NOT the buyer. The buyer's contract is with the seller, thus it's up to the seller to get the item there in one piece. If it doesn't, the seller is at fault and it's not up to the buyer to pay for insurance or anything else. Insurance is there so the seller can recoup their costs after refunding the buyer.
You can state "not responsible" in your auctions all want, doesn't change the fact that you still are responsible.
Tabe
<< <i>I can see why that would be true in normal business situations but here you are giving the buyer a choice to pay for different types of delivery. It's clearly spelled out, pay a normal price and have seller responsible, or save some money and assume the responsibilty. There's great demand for minimal shipping costs. If a buyer chooses this route he should be the one responsible. All the seller then needs to do is provide proof of shipping and he's done. >>
If you went to a furniture store and bought a couch, would you pay $100 extra for insurance to guarantee your couch was delivered? No.
If you hired a contractor to build your house and he subcontracted the roof out and told you to pay an extra $500 in insurance on the roof, would you? What if you didn't buy the insurance and the roof leaked? Who would you sue? The guy you contracted with (the contractor) or the guy who did the work (the subcontractor)? You'd sue the contractor, because that's who your deal was with.
Just because it's on Ebay doesn't make things different here. The buyer has a contract with the seller to get the item delivered in the condition advertised. How it gets there is the seller's responsibility. The seller can offer different methods as far as speed, etc, but *ALL* of those methods come with an implied guarantee that the item will actually arrive in the condition advertised WITHOUT the buyer purchasing insurance.
Tabe
When the agreement of the parties contemplates or requires the transportation of the goods from the seller to the buyer by means of an independent carrier, it is necessary to distinguish between the contract obligating the seller merely to deliver the goods to the carrier, commonly called the "shipment contract," and the contract obligating the seller to deliver the goods by means of a carrier at the destination, called a "destination contract."
Definition: A "destination contract" is one whereby a seller specifically agrees to deliver the goods sold to buyer at a particular destination and to bear the risk of loss of the goods until tender of delivery; this can be accomplished by express provision in the sales contract to that effect or by use of particular delivery terms, such as "F.O.B. [place of delivery]."
There is a strong presumption against the creation of destination contracts, and in the absence of a contract term or trade usage to the contrary, a contract that contemplates the transportation of goods from the seller to the buyer will be interpreted as a shipment contract and not as a destination contract.
Definition: If the contract involving transportation is a "shipment contract," title passes to the buyer upon making a proper delivery to the carrier. The Uniform Commercial Code provides that if the contract requires or authorizes the seller to send the goods to the buyer but does not require delivery at the destination, title passes to the buyer at the time and place of shipment.
Thus, where coal was sold "F.O.B. barge," the seller's performance was complete and title passed upon loading of the coal onto the barge. However, where a firm accepted orders on behalf of a manufacturer of goods and had goods shipped by common carrier "F.O.B. manufacturer's factory" directly to the purchaser's place of business, title to the goods, under Uniform Commercial Code § 2-401(2)(a) passed to the buyer at the time and place of shipment. Where the contract requires delivery of the goods to a particular carrier, delivery by the seller to another carrier does not complete performance so as to pass title to the purchaser.
Practice Guide: "F.O.B.," or "free on board," is a shipping term usually indicating that the supplier pays the shipping costs (and usually also the insurance costs) from the point of manufacture to a specified destination, at which point the buyer takes responsibility. However, legal and international trade dictionaries alike indicate that, under the international understanding of the term, either a shipping point or a destination point should immediately follow the "F.O.B." term to avoid ambiguity.
The term "f.o.b." has acquired a well-defined meaning in commercial contracts, the symbol standing for the words "free on board." The Code provides that, unless otherwise agreed, the term "f.o.b." means "free on board at a named place," and even though used only in connection with a stated price, is a "delivery" term.
Comment: The provision is intended to negate the uncommercial line of decisions that treat "f.o.b." as merely a price term.
Hence, it affects the time when risk of loss and title pass.
The fact that the seller is to send or ship the goods to the buyer does not make the transaction a destination delivery contract. For example, a contract calling for shipment f.o.b. the seller's city passes title and risk of loss when the goods are placed with the carrier. This conclusion is not altered by the fact that the goods are to be "shipped to" the buyer, as this does not overcome the presumption in favor of a shipment contract rather than a destination contract. Likewise, the fact that the contract refers to f.o.b. shipment does not bar the conclusion that the contract called for a destination delivery.
This is why lawyers drink so much.
Amen to that. I laugh every time I see this when I'm buying and a little voice in my head says "yes you are".
As a seller myself, I don't even put this in my description because the statement is false.
This is a $30 card, not a $30,000 card. The business reality is that if you do not give him a refund, there is not much that he can practically do beyond negative feedback.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.