PCGS POP's are dropping on some key dates...Have YOU seen any notable ones???

saintguru · February 13, 2005 9:39PM

Well the 13,000 RCW inserts are being removed slowly....I watch the Saints and have noticed some very notable decreases...has anyone else noted any changes in the coins YOU collect.

These are VERY SIGNIFICANT!!!

SAINTS..

HIGH RELIEFS....-31 all grades (so far...there were many more...I think about 150+)

1908-S MS64...43 to 23! key date...much more valuable in ms65.

1920-S ms64...17 to 11! one of the toughest dates in the series.

1931 ms64...50 to 38! another big jump in price to ms 65.

These are decreases that will make a difference. Let's see where else the effect is seen. Share your expertise.

jacktheknife · February 13, 2005 9:58PM

I'd love for them to find about a hundred 1909- S VDB inserts with MS-66RD on them. Then the coin might actually be worth $13,000 (going rate).

Jack

nwcs · February 13, 2005 9:58PM

Wow, lots of upgrade attempts there!

dimples · February 13, 2005 10:06PM

Congrats Saintguru on your investment.

mercurynut · February 13, 2005 10:08PM

This is going to be interesting to watch. I wonder if other dealers might do the same and give back ll their inserts.

marcmoish · February 13, 2005 10:24PM

This pop adjutments/issue pertains only to saints or are there other denominations like mercury dimes involved ??

saintguru · February 13, 2005 10:25PM

Not to rehash a long discussed topic, but this hoarde of inserts was NOT turned in out of couscientiosness. David Hall is making a major effort to get the biggest hoarders to turn these in. There will be others, I am sure of that. He is done playing footsie with these dealers and he knows very well who they are!

pharmer · February 13, 2005 10:29PM

Yeah, hadn't thought about that, after all they have been paying him for all those regrades, and he's got the records.

saintguru · February 13, 2005 10:32PM

13,000 inserts!! All kinds of coins...but he does deal in high end stuff, so watch rare dates.

XpipedreamR · February 13, 2005 10:33PM

I hear that 1955S Lincoln cents in MS66RD dropped from to 1524 to 1523!

RYK · February 13, 2005 10:52PM

Great info, JB. It will be fun to compare my April, 2004 pop reports to the April, 2005 pop reports. I doubt my coins will be significantly impacted.

Proof · February 13, 2005 10:56PM

Thank you Steve Contursi, of Rare Coin Insert Wholesalers.

saintguru · February 13, 2005 11:06PM

PROOF...well put! There are two more BIGGIES that I know of. I had talked to David Hall about this at FUN and he was adamant about getting these inserts back...I mean ADAMANT!!!

lloydmincy · February 13, 2005 11:43PM

Hey Jay:

Good for you especially. This may have a positive pricing impact. BUT....... some of these coins are priced with the knowledge that the pop reports are off.

Jack: I had first thought the 1909-s VDB coin would NOT have many 66rd inserts laying around, because there had been so many s-vdb's that were saved by enthusiasts years ago... One the other "side of the coin" - the price increase to get a 67 - maybe there ARE quite a few inserts of 66 out there....

Insert returns: I guess it wouldnt make much of an impact for those high pop coins, but the rarities...of course helps the collector and dealer to have better info for decision making.

saintguru · February 14, 2005 12:01AM

LM...The system is certainly not perfect...but justn HAVING a POP report is revolutionary compared to what there was before them. Mintage figures???...USELESS, especially for gold, because of the melting and the non-issuance of these coins, esopecially in the 20th century. I think these inserts will be very meaningful in 18th century coins, Bust coins, the old stuff that RCW specializes in...

Cuckoo for Coco-Puffs
Denny Crane

mgoodm3 · February 14, 2005 12:04AM

nice research, dude.

saintguru · February 14, 2005 12:29AM

Wasn't me MG...It was the guy fourth from the left on my sig-line.

mgoodm3 · February 14, 2005 12:34AM

You mean the scary hippie pot-head who drives a van called the "Love Machine"?

edited to elaborate further.

saintguru · February 14, 2005 1:04AM

i thought it was called the Rolling Bongmobile??

lloydmincy · February 14, 2005 1:08AM

Wow, Jay:

Now I know why you were kicked out of your home at age 13. Actually, I wish I could grow hair like that today!!!.

P.S. BTW - I am going to hand in my 1804 Silver Dollar inserts. See if that effects their prices at all.

---Lloyd

jpkinla · February 14, 2005 1:15AM

This should get very interesting and I suspect its only the beginning of the changes! In the series that I foolow a few significant changes are:

$5 Indian

The rare 1914-s (my favorite date) has gone from a pop of 8 with 0 better to a pop of 6 with 0 better

$10 Indian

The famous Rolled Edge in MS66 has gone from a pop of 18 to a pop of 14

$20 Saints

The rare 1920-s in MS64 has gone from a pop of 18 to a pop of 11!

I believe this will have no immediate impact on prices but am really glad the information will be a bit more reliable. Never 100% reliable but what other source do we have?

My 20th Century Gold Registry Set

techeff · February 14, 2005 1:37AM

saintguru · February 14, 2005 1:39AM

Careful Techeff or you may have to pay royalties!!

RYK · February 14, 2005 1:47AM

It's comforting to know that 18 of the original 10 1884 Trade Dollars are still accounted for.

techeff · February 14, 2005 1:55AM

Careful Techeff or you may have to pay royalties!!

I would like exclusive rights to this icon. Where do I send the check?

BTW, nice thread SG.

RYK · February 14, 2005 1:58AM

JB and Techeff,

Can you let the rest of us in on your private conversation?

saintguru · February 14, 2005 2:03AM

Rob...your transparency preceeds your intellect.

jpkinla · February 14, 2005 2:11AM

I think what JB is trying to say guys is that you may have to pay ME royalties for your $10 1933 icon as that is MY coin you are picturing! My rates are very reasonable however!

BTW, the current pop on the coin is 6 with 0 better and I know for fact of at least one tag that is now an NGC coin so the pop should decline by at least one coin.

My 20th Century Gold Registry Set

saintguru · February 14, 2005 2:22AM

Blah, blah, blah...I see at least 3 on this board alone.

Anyway Laura's is nicer.

jpkinla · February 14, 2005 2:25AM

JB, are you trying to start something with which $10 1933 is nicer? A touchy subject! I am not going to go there however. That can be discussed on another thread!

This thread is about pop's going down! I haven't seen as many pop reductions in the $10 Indian series as yet. I anticipate several reductions however specifically in the 1914-s, 1930-s and perhaps in the D mint coins. We'll have to see.

My 20th Century Gold Registry Set

RYK · February 14, 2005 2:37AM

I think what JB is trying to say guys is that you may have to pay ME royalties for your $10 1933 icon as that is MY coin you are picturing!

Public domain, dude. Sorry. Some lunatic (ran out of lithium) was using my icon for three months or so until he got booted from these boards. I will try not to embarrass you too much. BURP!

jpkinla · February 14, 2005 3:33AM

Hey RYK, you can use my icon as much as you want. The icon is public, my coin isn't! The more advertising, the better!

I will be interested to see if the pop drops on the coin or whether it stays at 6. We KNOW that the Legend NGC MS66 coin WAS the Kruthoffer coin which was in a PCGS MS65 holder so that is one. I suspect there is another tag floating around but we will have to see.

My 20th Century Gold Registry Set

saintguru · February 14, 2005 3:38AM

Indeedf YES, JPK...The superior Krutthoffer coin was originally an NGC coin.

Inclusief gaat u doden om de seconde best te hebben, niet waar?

mrfred · February 14, 2005 3:44AM

<<It's comforting to know that 18 of the original 10 1884 Trade Dollars are still accounted for. >>

This discussion makes me think of Lake Woebegon, where all of the children are above average.

Here is a book very relevant to this thread!

jpkinla · February 14, 2005 3:44AM

SG, my Spanish ain't what it used to be! But I think the answer is....."Yes I do view Cam's "Younger Woman" thread everyday religiously!"

My 20th Century Gold Registry Set

RYK · February 14, 2005 4:27AM

Hey RYK, you can use my icon as much as you want...

Thanks, JPK. I like it better when I recognize the poster before I see the name. I am going back to MY favorite coin. You are welcome to try it on if you like.

techeff · February 14, 2005 4:46AM

I hope boiler doesn't mind.

jpkinla · February 14, 2005 4:49AM

Guys! Guys! I liked your other icon better!

My 20th Century Gold Registry Set

RYK · February 14, 2005 4:52AM

Imitation is the greatest form of flattery.

jpkinla · February 14, 2005 6:13AM

Thanks RYK! I just confirmed with PCGS that it will take a few weeks to finish ALL of the RCW tag entries so there should be many more surprises and reductions in population. I, for one, believe that the $5 1909-o in MS64 is really overstated by 40%-50%. The pops show 20 with 2 better and I would think its really about 10 with 2 better. We will see!

My 20th century Gold Registry Set

keets · February 14, 2005 6:14AM

not greatest, most sincere.

al h.

scher · February 14, 2005 6:17AM

That 10 indian is a cool icon..can that be my icon as well??
bruce scher

jpkinla · February 14, 2005 6:30AM

Bruce,

Of course! I am actually looking forward to "viewing" your sets at LB. Someday it will be my turn to decide if auction or private treaty is the way to go......

My 20th Century Gold Registry Set

jpkinla · February 14, 2005 6:38AM

I think that when you start to look at the entire spectrum of series, we will see some amazing changes. Stellas, High Reliefs, Saints, $3 gold......Many of the rarer dates will have 50% reductions in populations. I have heard that RCW has resubmitted coins numerous times so each time they retained the tag. Key dates in just about all series where the price jump was huge are all candidates for significant population adjustments.

Rolled Edge $10 Indians have more coins graded by PCGS and NGC than the total mintage numbers so you just know there are reductions.

I applaud PCGS's efforts here because there is no other data available to us besides mintage figures which are not always indicative of rarity.

My 20th Century Gold Registry Set

boiler78 · February 14, 2005 6:43AM

For the record. I am flattered when anyone here chooses to wear one of my icons.

RYK · February 14, 2005 6:48AM

What percentage of tags from crackouts have been discarded or lost? Any guesses?

jpkinla · February 14, 2005 7:09AM

I would think pretty small numbers BUT that is a good point. Obviously the numbers will NEVER be 100% accurate no matter what. WE also have to keep in mind that there are many unslabbed coins out there some of which are great rarities.

My 20th Century Gold Registry Set

Barry · February 14, 2005 7:17AM

<< <i>What percentage of tags from crackouts have been discarded or lost? Any guesses? >>

90%
What's the point of keeping them? Just clutter. You have to be a real packrat to keep them. Wait a minute - that describes most of us, doesn't it? Ok... 80%

saintguru · February 14, 2005 8:55PM

ttt

jpkinla · February 15, 2005 5:22AM

In Saints, I bet the population drops off significantly on the 1921 Saint in MS62 as there are not that many of them as the pops indicate. That was a favorite date at RCW.

My 20th Century Gold Registry Set

dbldie55 · February 15, 2005 6:08AM

I track the changes for the Liberty Nickel series monthly, and there was a lot of red (reductions) after I updated my database today. Looks like some "common" coins were in the group as well.

PCGS POP's are dropping on some key dates...Have YOU seen any notable ones???

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