1885-O O/O Morgan - different than VAM 12

nesvt

The mint mark on this 1885-O looks doubled on the inside left. The only O/O I see listed for 85-O is the VAM-12. It is also doubled on inside left. The photo in the VAM Book looks different. The mint on my coin isn't doubled as severely, the O is much higher, is centered instead of being to the left, and also has a very slight right tilt. Any ideas?

RVDavis

Perhaps your coin is simply doubled, rather than O/O? I can't find any similar photo myself.

nesvt

<< <i>Perhaps your coin is simply doubled, rather than O/O? >>



Maybe. It's the only thing doubled on the reverse. The obverse has nothing distinct about it.... normal date, no doubling any where.
The line inside the O is very faint and the coin is uncirculated. I never know on these things if it's a new VAM since the last update printed, or it's just a diagnostic that wasn't captured in the description.

MAD4MORGANS

Comparing the photo with the one in the VAM encyclopedia, I would classify this as a VAM-12 O/O for your MS Morgan.

If you look very closely at your photo, you will notice a circular outline at the top inside of the "O" from about 1 o'clock arcing to the left to about to the start of the top of the more apparent vertical bar on the left. That is the main indicator that I believe this has been repunched with this being the second underlying "O".

Again looking very closely, there appears to be a small chip at at the top right outside of the "O" between 1 and 2 o'clock. There also appears to a left shift of the "O" by evidence by the right inside/outside edges of the mint mark and some very fine chips and another circular scratch at about the four o'clock position. There also looks to be a slight metal "shift" at one o'clock and seven o'clock on the metal surface of the "O".

The two "V" shaped raised metal marks at 12 o'clock also indicate to me that the die for this mintmark was "repunched" a second time.

Yours isn't a dramatic as the one shown in the VAM encyclopedia, but I believe a VAM-12 nonetheless.
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Also notice on the surface of the "O" at 9 o'clock between the inside of the loop and the outside, you will see a very small mark. That mark looks like a "oo" so your coin is trying to classify itself!

(As you are aware, mintmarks were also punched into the dies by hand. Me, a guy who has used a hammer a few times in his life, would speculate the punch was "tapped" lightly the first time to align the hammer stroke and then hammered sharply on the second. That's what I think happened here on this repunch. )

See also the second paragraph of Doubled Dates and Doubled Mint Marks in the VAM Encyclopedia pg 117.
Terry

nesvt

Thanks Terry. I'll check out the points you referenced. Still not clear why the mint mark on my coin is so much higher than the photo for the VAM-12.
I just read the part in the book about common "micro doubling" on mint marks. Maybe that's all it is.

Thanks again.

MAD4MORGANS

The "micro-doubling" on Pg 117 Doubled Mint Marks , refers to O/O, S/S mint marks. The Mint Mark Placement on Pg 116 column two shows the 1885-O positioning to be "O" shifted right, "O" set high. I believe your VAM-12 variety is the "O" set high version.