Help ID two Chinese notes (please!)

spoon

I know this is somewhat OT from coins, but close enough. I just won these two notes. Neither I nor the seller have a clue where exactly they are from, or when, but I am hoping one of our resident China experts might help narrow the field. Pretty neat looking designs!

Note 1:


Note 2:


(Yeah, I've been straying from coins into notes a lot lately )
Thanks!


edit to restore images

Askari

I've seen this before, but I can't quite remember what I learned about it. It may not be a regular note.

satootoko

The character at the top right of No. 2 is "gold".

Unfortunately, that's all the Beautiful Bride was able to determine, except that both pre-date 1911, the founding of the Republic of China. She thinks the three characters in the top window on No. 2, and the four characters in the top window on No. 1, are the era names, but the Japanese reading of the characters is different from the Chinese, so she can't Anglicize the names.

Where's Sumnom when we need him?

shirohniichan

It appears to be an unissued private bank note. The serial number is left blank. I don't know how to pronounce the characters in Chinese, but the closest Japanese equivalent I can come up with is "Shinka" Company. Maybe in Mandarin it's "Shin Hwa" or something like that. I don't see any characters that look like era names, so I have no idea when it was printed.

sumnom

I am not sure what they are but I have a strong feeling they are money orders of some kind. I agree with Shiroh that they are not dated. I will get back to you in a bit. I am still working on it. I also have an inkling that they are meant to be valid only in certain regions...

sumnom

Thinking, thinking, thinking......


I think they date from the early republican period......


thinking....

rhound1977

I'm thinking they look pretty neat, but have no clue of identity.....

sumnom

These things are giving me quite a hard time. They most certainly drafts payable on demand issued by private firms of some sort. I think they are companieis and not banks, although the second one appears to be a wig company (!!!) and overstamped by a bank of the same name. The second one is payable in silver (?).



Jeez, I will have to get back to you all on this. In the meantime, perhaps someone more knowlegable than I can get in on the fun???

sumnom

I found the second one!!!! I love google!


Here it is.


OK, not a wig company but a hair net company.

sumnom

Here is another private note with interesting info.

indianabyron

They are ligit currency most were issued by the central chinese government but issued by private banks to the public. Now if I can only find my book about issued currency pre 1911 then id be able to tell you what it is. Dam I just remembered I lent my book out and its only 350 miles away at the monent. Nice looking stuff but this is from a guy who on ebay my name is chinese-paper123. So you can guess what im really into collecting.


Byron

spoon

Wow! Thanks guys

I know these have to be private issues or a Chinese parallel to notgeld (is that a proper comparison?), but I spent almost an hour staring at Pick Vol 2 (don't have Vol#1, don't know if it'd help tho) trying to find similar characters and about all I got was the serial # block (which is empty), and 2 or 3 characters that mean "Ch'ao" (which I have no clue as to what any form of that means, I don't know Chinese!). But it sure was fun

Damn impressive research, sumnom
So the second one we know something about.. it's from Shantung Province (between Hopei/Beijing and Kiangsu/Shanghai; where a lot of foreign 'colonies' were (at least on the coast)), specifically Wangyuan (now Lunghau Shih?). Issued by Chen-Hua Company.

OK, I'm good so far.. but what's the deal with the "Chang's Family of Ta-Mak" part? Is that what's written in the 10 small circles below the title block? And a "Hair Net Company"?? Any guesses on how a hair net company came to issue its own notes instead of just using the parent company's stuff or local notes? As you can easily tell I'm terribly ignorant on all of this.. but it is fascinating. If anyone can point me in a direction where I can learn more it'd be greatly appreciated

Askari

I went through both Vol. 1 & 2, so don't worry that you missed something there. I guess I get partial credit for recalling that it wasn't a regular note ... and my Pick research only confirmed it wasn't a provincial bank either.

spoon

Thanks for the assist, Askari This stuff is fun, isn't it? I've been getting a lot of WWI era notgeld lately.. been debating about whether I should post some of the better stuff here or on the Currency forum. I haven't really looked for any exclusively World Paper Money-type forums.. are there any good ones?

Askari

I used to post a lot on the Currency forum (since I was the one that got it started), but there were only a few of us collecting non-US currency and lack of time has made me cut back on the time I spend on the CU forums. I haven't found a better currency forum, but it's been a while since I looked. Here's a must-have link, though: Ron Wise's World Paper Money gallery of world banknote images. They have a section on Notgeld as well.

I have quite a bit of Notgeld myself and Philippine Guerrilla currency, as well as WWI POW currency issues and other WWI/II occupation notes.

sumnom

Byron, it seems that these are private issues and most likely 1920's but notes of this type were also used before 1912, according to the links.

sumnom

Here is new info about the first one. It is from a place called Jinkou ("gold" and "mouth" characters at the top of the note). There is a Jinkou in Shandong Province and one in Hubei Province. I do not know which one it is.


What does it mean to say that these notes are not payble under lamp light? Does that mean they can only be used during the day? That one is a mystery to me. I was hoping to find those four characters as some sort of stock phrase but i was not find any such thing in my dictionaries.

sumnom

Askari

That's easy for you to say, Sumnom, but I haven't a clue what you just posted.

SingaporeCoinGuy

Hi All,

This is a type of draft or remittance note from a merchant house or bank named Chen Hua. The Chen Hua Wig Co. is probably a subsidiary and may have issued the note. The writing on the note states "This note is good for One Tael of money, it does not state clearly whether in gold or silver????. Although "gold mouth" is written at the top of the note. One Tael weighs 37.59 gms or 1.32 Oz. Hope this throws some light on this thread.

sumnom

Singaporecoinguy, is a tael the same as tiao? My understanding is that these notes are good for one tiao, which is 1,000 coins, not one tael, a unit of weight.

indianabyron

I need to find my book on the history of chinese currency. All i need to do is to remember who I loaned it to???? seeing as how i loaned it out 2 years ago it should be as easy as finding a needle in a hay stack.


Byron