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Poor eBay: Profits only up 43%, stock slides 12%

ManorcourtmanManorcourtman Posts: 8,024 ✭✭✭✭✭
On front page of today's IBD: "Ebay's charmed life finally takes break with weak quarter." After hours shares were down 12%. Poor eBay only saw pro forma per-share earnings up 38% from a year ago and net profit only rose 43%. I guess our coin selling fees aren't high enough yet to help them sustain 50%+ growth every quarter. I smell a second fee increase in late 2005.

Comments

  • I wonder how much they will lose when the new fee structure takes place next month- I've spoke to a few folks that have 'stores' and they are closing them down- to costly to run.
  • They knew this was going to happen, hence the idiotic rates/fee increases upon already out of line fees. I too have seen many of the stores I had in my favorite stores area now closed. I've been on a mad selling binge to get as much stuff as possible that I've had laying around sold off and done with before the Feb 8th deadline. Then my activity will drop off like a ripe apple from the tree. They will find this to be the case in large numbers I am sure, thus negating any hopeful increase in profits realized by the idiotic rates/fee increases. Basically, they shot themselves in the foot.
  • ManorcourtmanManorcourtman Posts: 8,024 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The article also mentions Overstock.com auctions jumped by half since eBay announced the fee hikes. I have never been to the site nor did I know they had auctions? Anyone selling on Overstock?

    IBD also noted Amazon and Yahoo challenges have largely failed. The coin market is so ripe for an affordable site that the small to mid-sized dealer or so-called dealer can operate on with the relative ease one finds with eBay.
  • OuthaulOuthaul Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Certainly makes Yahoo Auctions look more tempting.


  • << <i>Certainly makes Yahoo Auctions look more tempting. >>



    I tried signing up for Yahoo auctions. It is nowhere near as easy
    to use as ebay. I haven't tried the others.

    image
    Please check out my eBay auctions!
    My WLH Short Set Registry Collection
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's a temporary dip, and it has been predicted by both eBay and analysts. Buyers have to go where there are sellers, sellers have to go where there are buyers. That's eBay.
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    I wonder if their price hikes were a pre-emptive strike for investors before releasing this news to make them think they have the situation "resolved."

    Fear the power of any company which has the power to raise prices almost at will without too much fear of losing business to competition. Hopefully, this is the one that rocks the apple cart and forces them to fit into their britches again.


  • We need more coin dealers and coin trades on OVERSTOCK and other venues. I will not be buying from Ebay anymore.
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ebay is down 16% today. I sold out of my small position last week.

    My prediction: Ebay is not going away. Ebay will be back in the low $100's by the end of the year. The sellers will be there, the buyers will be there, and the earnings will be back on track. One year from now, this sell-off will be looked at as a great opportunity to get into a great franchise at a reasonable entry point.

    Disclosure: No position curently.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,109 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Down $21 now image
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    From AP:

    "Meg Whitman, EBay president and chief executive, said Wednesday the company expects to report 2005 sales between $4.25 billion and $4.35 billion, including $1.01 billion to $1.03 billion in the first quarter.

    That's below the lofty expectations of Wall Street, where a survey of 22 analysts by financial research firm Thomson First Call predicted eBay would report 2005 sales of roughly $4.37 billion, including $1.05 billion in the first quarter. "

    Guys, this is not a huge miss. $4.30 billion in sales vs. $4.35. Often companies will lower expectations so that they can exceed them and look better to Wall Street. I have not dissected the numbers any further, but this looks like a buying opportunity to me.

    R
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,109 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Ebay is down 16% today. I sold out of my small position last week.

    My prediction: Ebay is not going away. Ebay will be back in the low $100's by the end of the year. The sellers will be there, the buyers will be there, and the earnings will be back on track. One year from now, this sell-off will be looked at as a great opportunity to get into a great franchise at a reasonable entry point.

    Disclosure: No position curently. >>



    EBAY cannot and will not continue to trade at 80x earnings, 9x book value, and 23x sales. NO way NO how!!!

    Sticky this prediction--------You have seen the highs on Ebay stock for the forseeable future. And I can see a long way.
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Guys, this is not a huge miss. $4.30 billion in sales vs. $4.35. Often companies will lower expectations so that they can exceed them and look better to Wall Street. I have not dissected the numbers any further, but this looks like a buying opportunity to me. >>

    Yes, it is a very small miss and a typical Wall Street overreaction.

    Having said that, the market has not been good so far this year, and there has definitely been no "January effect." The market is pretty much looking for any reason to sell off right now.

    This is one of the reasons I like Berkshire Hathaway. Warren Buffett aside, they don't play those silly games with analysts or use long-term suboptimal strategies just to meet this quarter's numbers -- because they don't give estimates. I'm sure there are a lot of companies which shot themselves in the foot long-term just to hit their targets this quarter. Getting that last ten cents of earnings this quarter may cost them thirty cents in the next fiscal year. But the short-term stock-flippers and Wall Street types don't care about next year.

    [Edit to add: Keep in mind also that a stock like EBAY was priced to near-perfection and with expectations that they'd keep blowing away estimates. That made the reaction to this miss -- small as it was -- as violent as it has become.]
  • fishcookerfishcooker Posts: 3,446 ✭✭
    Guys, this is not a huge miss. $4.30 billion in sales vs. $4.35. Often companies will lower expectations so that they can exceed them and look better to Wall Street.

    The major factor causing the Bear market is Faked Earnings. Excuse me - "accounting irregularities."

    Companies fake Earnings high, and fake Estimates low. When a stock actually misses in real life, it should lose 15+% in an instant.

    And it will lose more when the Leveraged investors wake up tomorrow to margin calls....




  • whatever, they keep raising my fees and I will explore direct sales even more than I am now....


    Billy
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That NAILS it! More fee increases needed. image

    MY prediction: Yahoo and Google have the resources to "mine" eBay for users .....and will.

    eBay has the "eyes" for now. That can change rapidly if large players decide to go after the business with good consultants who have collectibles experience and can guide the format.

    eBay has had a good run. Their business model is too good to overlook for long. The costs of their business are minimal as "storage" is very very cheap nowadays.

    Give another large Inet player an incentive to reap the sale commissions and if they have OTHER sources of income (banner ads, placement fees, etc) they can afford to develop superior sites.

    (maybe e-BOMbay)....heh

    eBay's huge fee increase for "stores" was stupidity in the extreme.

  • ManorcourtmanManorcourtman Posts: 8,024 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Final totals for eBay 1/20: down $19.72 for the day. Poor old CEO must have lost a couple bucks today.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,109 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Meg Whitman owns about 11 million shares. So she lost over $200 million today. Put that in perspective---she could have bought every coin that has been auctioned off during the last year with that money.

    There are a lot of people with those kind of bucks. Prices for the top and rarest coins will always be supported by people like this.
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • The truth is, eBay missed it earnings. Traders don’t buy on the announcement but the projection or rumor of the announcement. By the time that the announcement of earnings is made the stock price already reflects the news. In this case, eBay missed and there was a need to dump a stock that did not perform as expected.
    About "accounting irregularities", I think it is just as misleading to understate projected earnings as it is to overstate them. A company has to “beat the street” for a reason or else they will be pegged by traders for “creating news.”
    Shareholders only care about fee increases affecting eBay’s profit, not the sellers. If a percentage of sellers go away, that loss may be made up for by the fee increase. It might turn out to be a good thing. A big complaint about eBay is that it has become a retail venue. A person who has bought 5,000 glow sticks or 50,000 cell phone antenna stickers might not try and sell on eBay; while a person trying to clean out their garage things he’s found a better deal than the classified adds.
    imageimage
  • Dave99BDave99B Posts: 8,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Guys, no offense, but most of you are missing the boat. As a seller, you don't list material on sites with the lowest fees. You list where the buyers are ---- they're the folks running the show, not the sellers.

    Overstock.com?

    A ghost town... really, lets be serious... go check it out. How about posting some of your great buys or sells over there.

    Amazon?

    Please - I just checked their site. Sad. They have 817 listings in the US Half Dollar category. Their listings have three bidders. Not 300. Not 30. 3.

    Of course, that is better that their U.S. Cent category. 683 listings - number of bidders? Zero.

    US Dollar category? 1,327 listings, 9 bidders (almost double digits).

    Sorry guys, but I see a trend here...am I biased as an eBay shareholder? Certainly. But I'm also a realist.

    Dave
    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
  • dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
    ttt


  • << <i>Overstock.com? >>



    Please... Ebay started out selling Beanie babies......and it was a ghost town too once.... Nothing in this world is permanent.

    Sellers need to move to Overstock...Amazon, too much fraud on Ebay, I guess the sellers will just keep listing and paying Ebay when there are no buyers, they will move to other venues.

  • dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
    ttt
  • flaminioflaminio Posts: 5,664 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Please... Ebay started out selling Beanie babies. >>

    Pez dispensers, actually.

    << <i>Sellers need to move to Overstock...Amazon, too much fraud on Ebay. >>

    What a silly thing to say. The fraudsters will go where the people are. If by some miracle Overstock overtakes eBay in volume, you will see just as much fraud there as there is today on eBay.
  • Dave99BDave99B Posts: 8,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lets's try this again...

    Overstock.com? Amazon? How about posting some of your great buys or sells over there.

    I'm waiting....still waiting......imageimageimage

    Dave

    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
  • flaminioflaminio Posts: 5,664 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Overstock.com? Amazon? How about posting some of your great buys or sells over there. >>

    I've scored one coin in my life off of amazon -- a (1993) $5 WW2 commem. Not a particularly hard to find item.

    The nice thing about amazon is that the payment processing all goes through amazon's system -- so if you have an account already there, you're all set up.
  • dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
    ttt
  • I figure that this thread is probably played out, so I’ll ask. What does “ttt” mean?
    Dennis
    imageimage
  • dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
    ttt = to the top

    EBAY = Bloated Pig Deflating
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,109 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I bought 500 shares at 77.02 then another 500 at 75.12

    There is good support at the 73 area. I am just looking for a quick bounce in the next week. Possibly as high as 85, although I will be out way before then.
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • GeomanGeoman Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭
    I sell exclusively on Yahoo! Auctions now. Granted, I do not sell high volume, or high-priced coins. But I have found that I get just as much money selling on Yahoo! Auctions as I did eBay. If you factor in the difference in fees, etc. I may even come out better.

    I tried an experiment a few times. I listed same items on both eBay and Yahoo! Auctions, copied the descriptions, same pics, same starting times and prices, same ending times, and tried different days. sometimes the final price was slightly higher on eBay. Sometimes on Yahoo! Auctions.

  • Dragon keeps bringing this thread to the top. I seem to remember he has something to do with the stock biz. Are you short eBay?

    I read a recent Morgan Stanley report stating they think eBay could do well. Basically their argument suggests PayPal can take a larger percentage of non-auction Internet payments. It convinced me and I will buy some EBAY shares if they get to $60 or below this coming summer.
  • Dave99BDave99B Posts: 8,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yahoo’s auctions were free for awhile. Even that couldn’t tempt people to come over. They don’t seem to get it either; it's not about sellers, its about buyers (eyeballs).

    Amazon is even more of a ghost town.

    Try listing an item with No Reserve at any of the other auction sites… and then report back (I've tried it twice - OUCH!) image

    Dave
    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,109 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sold it today at $81.30. Probably too soon, but better than a sharp stick in the eye.image
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • fishcookerfishcooker Posts: 3,446 ✭✭

    Nice move.

    Now that the leveraged Long investors have been blasted for 30%+, it's a new ballgame.

    Who knows, next quarter they may fake the earnings high again!




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