What would a 1974 aluminum cent bring?

byergo

In a private transaction of course.

No I don't have one, but I wish I did.

ER

I 'll let you know when I sell it.

ER

coppercoins

As far as I know the government still considers the ones that escaped destruction counterfeit and confiscatable material. Well, all of them except the one at the Smithsonian.

Wolf359

Don't know. But one was sold last year in a private sale.

cosmicdebris

<<What would a 1974 aluminum cent bring?>>

Jail Time?

nwcs

There are a couple board members who know...

ksteelheader

<< <i>There are a couple board members who know... >>





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astrorat

<< <i><<What would a 1974 aluminum cent bring?>>

Jail Time? >>



Arggh! Ya beat me to it!

They are interesting pieces, however.

Lane

byergo

Simple question guys. Doesn't anyone have an answer or educated guess?

nwcs

Do a search in the forum here. One was sold within the last year or so and details were given then.

gemtone65

Even with its illegal status, I would assume a price in the low 6 figures would be a starting offer. If such a coin were declared legal to own, I'd add one more zero.

mnmcoin

20 years to life!!!

morris <><

earlwbollinger

I think you need to take into account how much the lawyer fees are in trying to keep you out of jail.
So you would have a six figure coin with six figure legal expenses to boot.
It's like the 1933 $20 dougle eagle, forbidden fruit, and until it's legal, there would be a curse on the owner too.

astrorat

Okay, an educated guess and assuming the coin was legal to own . . . 1-2 million dollars. Since it would be unique for private hands and the market is strong, low seven figures would not surprise me.

Lane

airplanenut

<< <i>As far as I know the government still considers the ones that escaped destruction counterfeit and confiscatable material. Well, all of them except the one at the Smithsonian. >>

I think so, too... and that Smithsonian one is just so cool!

tradedollarnut

1-2 million dollars. Since it would be unique for private hands and the market is strong, low seven figures would not surprise me.

Seems high by a factor of ten.

astrorat

<< <i>1-2 million dollars. Since it would be unique for private hands and the market is strong, low seven figures would not surprise me.

Seems high by a factor of ten. >>



Why?

tradedollarnut

Just an educated guess. After all, Stewart wouldn't want it since it's not red.

1884 trade dollars [10 known, legal to own], 1838-O halves [11 or so known, legal to own] and 1876-CC twenty centers [a dozen or so known, legal to own] all trade in the $200-300k range. I think most collectors would rather own an example of one of those.

Sunnywood

What would it bring? Government scrutiny and eventual confiscation !!

kranky

My uneducated guess is about $10-20K. There are a number of factors that work against a very high price.

- No way of determining how many exist
- Pride of ownership diminshed since you can't discuss owning the coin (perhaps with a few close friends, but probably better not to)
- Small pool of potential buyers due to threat of confiscation and lack of ability to certify as authentic (although PCGS said they'd slab them)

keets

What would a 1974 aluminum cent bring?

probably about 5-15 with no time off for good behavior.

al h.

astrorat

Okay, right back at ya, TDN!

1804 dollars - 15 known (about 11 in private hands); 1913 Liberty nickels - 5 known; 1933 double eagle - 3 known (1 in private hands) . . . all these trade in the 1 to 8 million dollar range. I really think that if an aluminum cent came on the market that it would break 7 figures.

Lane

P.S. There are about 18 1876-CC twenty-cent pieces known . . . just an "FYI".

keets

hay astrorat

the prices you quite and the well-known pops you mention really aren't what determines the prices of these coins. it's always, always, always, always a function of demand. i have some items which are true and absolute rarities with well under 50 known examples. they sell at lower cost simply because demand is low. it's the basic capitalistic principal at work.

the aluminum cent would have a healthy demand because cents are popular but i don't think it would have the "high roller attention" that the other notables you mentioned have.

al h.

astrorat

My "pops" were in response to TDN's logic in assessing a value in the low hundred-thousand range. Of course the price will depend on demand, any high school economics student understands that. While all this speculation can sure be fun, it is a moot point since none of us will be proved right or wrong.

Okay, now what if owning a 1964 Peace dollar was made legal and one came on the market . . . rumors are that at least one made it out of the building . . .

Lane

airplanenut

Remember, too, that if someone really wants an 1804 $ or 1913 Liberty nickel, they could probably get one--we know where they are. It would be MUCH harder to pick up the aluminum cent, meaning the demand could drive the price high, even if the demand is one person.

tradedollarnut

I really think that if an aluminum cent came on the market that it would break 7 figures.

Nah. The reported sale was in the $100k range, which is about right. Why would one of the most famous coins in American numismatics that's in the same series - the 1943 copper cent - sell for 10-20% of such a coin? It wouldn't. And don't forget that the 1933 $20 sold for $1.5M privately.... a significant discount off its subsequent 'legal' price of $7.6M.

P.S. There are about 18 1876-CC twenty-cent pieces known . . . just an "FYI".

So Bowers says in the Eliasberg catalog... yet based on my personal observations of how infrequently they come on the market I'm comfortable with my "dozen or so" estimate.

BigE2

If I were offered one, I'd give $10G. Think of it this way: It's illegal, which limit's it's collectability. There are so few people that would take a risk on such a coin. The Feds would be after it, big time! I will never understand why they make such a big deal about certain "illegal" coins and not others.
I doubt ANY document (export license, for instance) exists for this coin, so the case for legal status can't be made.
PCGS will grade this coin? I don't know that I'd trust a conpany to keep that secret.

The only real reason for wanting that coin is "because". It's actually a pattern, is it not? And there just aren't that many pattern collectors. It doesn't fit into a Lincoln set.


Ultra-Cool though!! Just like 1964 Peace Dollar.

TAP444

I do believe around 50k would be the price
Tim that is for a private sale in the last year or so

astrorat

Yeah, but the reported sale you (TDN) state (of which I was not aware) was for an illegal coin, so the $100K does not surprise me.

The 1933 subsequently sold for $1.5 million? Or are you referring to a sale before the $7.65 million? If it was before the "big" sale, then it was also the sale of an illegal coin and the $1.5 million was fairly strong.

Now, regarding the 76-CC twenty-cent piece, while you may not come across them appearing at auction that often, I can document at least 16-18 pieces (a couple I do not have a photo to verify). There are more than 12, without a doubt.

Okay . . . your turn! (this is fun!)

Lane

tradedollarnut

In a private transaction, of course

If this isn't a direct insinuation in the very first post that the coin is still illegal when sold, then I don't know what could be more direct. Thus, the discount applies.

Even if legal, it wouldn't be a 7 figure coin. The big coins move in concert to each other. If legal, I feel it would be roughly equivalent to the coins I quoted.

Edited to add: I'm not gonna get into a discussion whether or not a 'dozen or so' equals 16-18. Close enough for government work...

astrorat

<< <i>In a private transaction, of course

If this isn't a direct insinuation in the very first post that the coin is still illegal when sold, then I don't know what could be more direct. Thus, the discount applies.

Even if legal, it wouldn't be a 7 figure coin. The big coins move in concert to each other. If legal, I feel it would be roughly equivalent to the coins I quoted.

Edited to add: I'm not gonna get into a discussion whether or not a 'dozen or so' equals 16-18. Close enough for government work... >>



Yep, my estimate was based on the sale of the coin if it was legal to own. I am not able to speculate as to illegal sales. And thus, we will have to agree to disagree. Let's make a bet . . . if the coin is made legal and it sells, if it is under $1 million dollars, dinner is on me, if it's over, then . . . I'll bring my appetite. Is it a bet?

Close enough for government work?!? As a prior government worker, I am not sure if I like that one!

Lane

Coinosaurus

<< <i>
Edited to add: I'm not gonna get into a discussion whether or not a 'dozen or so' equals 16-18. Close enough for government work... >>



TDN - I wouldn't second guess astrorat about 20c pieces. He knows of which he speaks

How about a test though.....astrorat, what can you tell us about the Baltimore hoard of 76-CCs

astrorat

<< <i>

<< <i>
Edited to add: I'm not gonna get into a discussion whether or not a 'dozen or so' equals 16-18. Close enough for government work... >>



TDN - I wouldn't second guess astrorat about 20c pieces. He knows of which he speaks

How about a test though.....astrorat, what can you tell us about the Baltimore hoard of 76-CCs >>



Oh geez, the ol' Maryland hoard. That is a bit of an enigma to me as there is no solid report of the number of pieces. Breen estimates somewhere in the 4-8 range, but I have only been able to find 3 or 4 potential specimens from auction and FPL records. Most of Breen's writing on twenty-cent pieces is correct, but there are some curious errors and omissions so I do not put all my faith in his estimates.

The origin of the hoard remains unknown, but Bowers (and I think Ford as well) speculates that the coins may have been from the 1876 assay commission and were set aside by one of its members. I am not sure if I believe this because Carson City did not send pieces for assay in 1876 (at least according to the Mint Director's report) and there really would have been no call to do so with this denomination as in 1876 there was already talk in Congress about eliminating the coin. Sadly, the original records remaining at the CC Mint do not shed any light. I have not yet checked the National Archives, but perhaps soon.

I think an equally valid possibility is that someone (mint worker, most likely) bought or switched out a few examples knowing that the denomination was doomed (and the CC Mint Superintendent was to melt all pieces on hand). Over the decades, they made their way to Baltimore.

Lane

Coinosaurus

QDB, in the Eliasberg catalog, identifies Baltimore collector W. Newcomer as a possible source (or intermerdiary) of these coins. Might be good to check the Newcomer inventory which, per a recent CW article, PCGS is about to post online.

astrorat

Thanks for the tip.

I have not looked at my records for quite a while, but the Newcomer connection sounds familiar.

Lane