How should we interpret this comment???

sliderider

From the question in the Q&A concerning dealers getting better grades than collectors:


<<I do feel dealers are much better at grading than collectors, have much more realistic expectations, and in general send in nicer coins.>>


Are we to take this to mean that a coin is somehow "nicer" when it is submitted by a dealer? Can we read from this that collectors are a bunch of unsophisticated boobs who wouldn't know a nice coin if it came up and bit them? Are collectors the peasantry, who should be happy with whatever scraps are thrown our way, while dealers get the royal treatment?

Let the flammage begin.

ms70

Yeah, I saw that too and was wondering what he meant by "nicer".

darktone

I assumes he means dealers get less body bags and higher grades and just taking a wild guess I agree. mike

nwcs

Actually, I tend to agree with DH.

fivecents

I agree with nwcs........ I don't think that dealers send in too many 1898-0 morgans that grade VF-20 or 1964 nickels that grade MS62, but some unknowledgable collectors do send these in.

Louis

The results in The World Series of Grading tends to back him up on the grading.

jacktheknife

I think a more concerning interpretation of that statement is that he (and the graders) actually knows which coins are being sent in by dealers and those sent in by the "average Joe" collector. It's not as blinded of a process as we're lead to believe. Why would Mr. Love go out and start an entirely new company with the main process focus being "Independent", blinded submission?

I just can't shake the paranoia...

Jack

Aethelred

At the risk of being beaten like a baby seal by you guys, I have to side with Hall on this one. Dealers look at 1000s of coins per day, we spend our days thinking about coins, talking about coins, buying coins and selling coins. If a dealer can't grade he or she is going to have a hard time putting food on the table.

A collector goes to work at XYZ, Inc. and does not spend each and every day 100% immersed in this. A collector might spend some evenings and weekends looking at his collection and may go to a shop or show every once in a while. As a general rule, most collectors are just not exposed to as many coins as most dealers and as a result does not have as many opportunities to fine tune their grading skills. Collectors who make an incorrect judgment will generally lose "fun money" or may even have a chance to return the coin in question, dealers don't have this luxury.

That is not to say that some collectors are not better than some dealers at grading. The collectors on these forums for example are among the most astute and knowledgeable in the world. I have also run into many dealers who would be better served by finding a different field of work, but as a general rule I believe Hall's comments ring true.

I would also add that it would not be good for business if PCGS were to grade coins submitted by one group different than another as they would quickly gain a reputation as being unreliable and the market would discount their product. For an example look at the NGC/Home Shopping relationship and the value of modern NGC 70s vs. modern PCGS 70s.

Cnitas

While I tend to believe as a whole 'collectors' send in a much wider variety of grades, my problem is that he avoided the real question (Why a collector's undergraded morgan did not upgrade after 2 attempts) by saying that collectors 'generally' send in inferior coins. His comment is irrellevant, since the graders are not supposed to know where any given coin comes from.

coynclecter

I would think he would have been around long enough to know what he's talking about and there is no reason to doubt him on this. In addition it seems more logiocal that dealers would know which coins would upgrade better than collectors. As for the comments about dealers getting upgrade just because the graders know who sent them in, that sound like a lot of "conspiracy theory" crap.
Personally, I had better upgrades when I sent coins direct to PCGS than I did when I sent them through a dealer, so it's just the luck of the draw on graders.



I guess people want a security and consistancy that just isn't there, so they look for all sorts of logical reasons for how grades are assigned. Bottom line is, its a lot of hit and miss, no matter who sends it in.

Neptune

it's a racket - just like everything else. Altho, I do agree that dealers are probably better at grading due to repitition - I also feel that they probably get preferential treatment as well - and some more than others. IMHO

example

UncleWiggly

AT/NT, crack out game, preferential treatment. Sounds more like a crap shoot than collecting coins.


Jerry

Dog97

The <<<nicer>>> part has me scratching my head. I guess he means dealers submit higher priced coins with higher profit margins instead of cheap AU junk bought bought off eBay as MS65, 66 etc that collectors are always submitting.

Bear

Im a peasent? I thought I was a bear?

CalGold

<< <i>Can we read from this that collectors are a bunch of unsophisticated boobs who wouldn't know a nice coin if it came up and bit them? >>



Yup. The collectors buy and submit overgraded and messed with raw coins. The dealers buy and submit PQ coins that they cherry pick from collectors. Or didn't you already know that?

CG

ElectricEye

A dealer is less likely than a collector to holder a coin worth $2. No offense, Braddick. Dealers as a whole probably submit "nicer" coins than a collector (not to take away from the efforts of collectors) due to profit motivation.

golddustin

It does stand to reason that dealers would submit "nicer" coins, for all the reasons listed, but that last sentence has to make you pause......how do they know, if the grading is "blind"? Is David reviewing the submissions after the coins have been graded and just stating statistics? Hopefully??

Conder101

Being more experienced, dealer tend to send in fewer coins that have problems, unnoticed cleaning, or coins that don't make the grade they are shooting for (fewer "low end pieces or didn't quite make it).