eBay ethical question selling coin copies?

cosmicdebris

Is THIS SELLER violating eBay's rules?

<<A copy, restrike, or reproduction of any numismatic item is allowed for sale or purchase on eBay only if it is clearly marked as such and incused in the metal or printed on the paper thereof. Additionally, you must clearly state in the title and/or description that the item is a copy, restrike, or reproduction and include a scanned picture of the marking in the listing.>>

ziggy29

Technically, yes -- I don't see the word COPY anywhere on the coin.

Also, I wish they would change the rule to require disclosure IN THE TITLE.

maddogale

It is stated in the last part of the description

ziggy29

<< <i>It is stated in the last part of the description >>

"...and include a scanned picture of the marking in the listing."

I don't see the marking.

BigE

Absolutely he is, his description hides the fact it is a fake more than discloses it per E-Bay rules--------------------------BigE

cosmicdebris

eBay should change their rule:

So that it reads "MUST CONTAIN THE WORD COPY IN THE TITLE". Should also change the wording to say that the image must be large enough to clearly show the word copy on the item.

alergar

"You are bidding on one replica gold guinnea coin"

It looks like they followed eBay's rules and states that the coin is a replica. It may be at the end of the listing, but thats why it's your responcibility to read the entire listing !!! I don't believe they have done anything wrong here !!!

khayse

Obviously the last paragraph should be the first paragraph. The first thing you want to know is that it's a copy.

"Copy" in title should be required.

-KHayse

cosmicdebris

<<I don't believe they have done anything wrong here !!! >>

Maybe true semantically but not ethically. Still shouldn't eBay change their rules so that COPY should be required in the items title?

100proof1957

Who Cares ?

Its Darkside !

relayer

I've learned putting it in the title doesn't generate as many hits

EVillageProwler

I don't see the marking.

Left obv field. I had a hard time seeing it at first.

EVP

cosmicdebris

<<Who Cares ?

Its Darkside ! >>

Look at his other auctions and you may care. He also sells US copy coins with the same deceitful tactics.


As a followup I sent the below to all the Board members of the ANA:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fellow ANA members,

I am a proud member of the ANA ( R-210447 ) as well as a frequent user on eBay ( eBay ID *cosmicdebris ). I applaud the ANA's involvement with eBay and it is a giant leap in the right direction.

I feel the need to express my views on one subject: Coin copies being sold on eBay. Just look at this auction as an example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=393381747

The seller is selling a copy coin but does not say it is a copy until the LAST paragraph of a lengthy description. Nor does he state in the title the Coin is a copy. Also his images are so small you can not see the word copy on the item. This seller has many other auctions listed just like it. This seller and many other sellers just like him on eBay are why I write to you today.

I challenge the ANA and eBay to both address this issue. The ANA can do 2 things which will help greatly. The first change the wording in the ANA's "Code of Conduct" for selling coins & paper money on eBay. Change the following:

"3) the listing clearly states that the item is a copy, restrike, or reproduction and includes an image of the marking."

To instead read:

3) the word COPY OR REPLICA MUST BE IN THE AUCTION'S TITLE and the listing's description clearly states that the item is a copy, restrike, or reproduction and includes an image of the marking and the image is large enough to clearly see the marking.

The second thing the ANA can do is get eBay to change their rules too. Currently eBay rules state:

"A copy, restrike, or reproduction of any numismatic item is allowed for sale or purchase on eBay only if it is clearly marked as such and incused in the metal or printed on the paper thereof. Additionally, you must clearly state in the title and/or description that the item is a copy, restrike, or reproduction and include a scanned picture of the marking in the listing."
Again I submit to you eBay's rule instead should read:

A copy, restrike, or reproduction of any numismatic item is allowed for sale or purchase on eBay only if it is clearly marked as such and incused in the metal or printed on the paper thereof. Additionally, you must clearly state in the TITLE AND DESCRIPTION that the item is a copy, restrike, or reproduction and include a scanned picture of the marking in the listing and the image is large enough to clearly see the marking.

I thank you all for taking the time to read my letter and I hope I have encouraged you all to act on this matter for the good of all involved.

regards,
ANA member R-210447

MacCrimmon

Well, at the very least he's a plagiarist.

mr1931S

Seller states:
"If you want that certain jingle in your pocket, this beautiful copy coin is just what you need. Cast in pewter from an original 1777 gold coin, this beautiful copy is then gold plated for the proper look. If you are a high class gentleman, you would not dirty your gloves with anything but true coin of the realm. You are bidding on one replica gold guinnea coin."

My opinion is that the seller should be doing more such as making a clear statement that the item is a copy in the title and a scanned picture of the marking that it is a copy. In all likelihood, there is no such marking on the copy itself. However, it seems that ebay's rule "or printed on the paper thereof" excludes any requirement by them that the marking be "incused in the metal." So, seller could simply put the item in a 2x2 (made of paper) ,write "copy" on it, include a scanned picture of the copy in its marked 2x2 paper holder in the listing and be within ebay's rules.

The seller's statement about the item being a copy is clearly in the "title and/or description" since it is in the description.

The only thing missing in the auction for the seller to be within ebay's rules is the scan of the copy in a paper-based holder marked "copy." It's an easy fix for this seller if he is called on this violation of ebay's rules.

BigE

<<only if it is clearly marked as such and incused in the metal or printed on the paper thereof. Additionally, you must clearly state in the title and/or description that the item is a copy, restrike, or reproduction and include a scanned picture of the marking in the listing.>>
You need a scanned picture of the "marking", not sure if they mean of the marked item. Also, you may only sell it if CLEARLY marked as such. "Printed on the paper thereof" seems to be meant for currency--------------------------BigE

BigE

also, when they state "copy must be included in the title and/or description they mean, I believe, it must always be in the title because there may not always be a description-----------------BigE

mr1931S

"Printed on the paper thereof" seems to be meant for currency.

Is currency considered "numismatic?"

"it must always be in the title because there may not always be a description"

Given that there is a description that mentions the item as a copy, the seller would still be within ebay's rules by not using the word "copy" in the auction title.

Ebay gives a lot of room to wiggle for sellers of copies it seems.

BigE

Agreed Mr 1874, it seems as if they got a cheap lawyer or a good one and wanted their rules to be meaningless---------------------------BigE

Conder101

<< <i>Is currency considered "numismatic?" >>


Of course, Numismatics is the study of money and money substitutes. So of course currency qualifies.

cosmicdebris

<<Ebay gives a lot of room to wiggle for sellers of copies it seems.>>

That's why the changes I suggested are needed. They will remove the wiggle room.

mr1931S

cosmicdebris, I agree. I think there are way too many sellers and buyers of questionable numismatic items who appear to have nefarious purposes these days. Ebay should be doing alot more to squelch some of the suspect activity that takes place on their venue.

cosmicdebris

I posted my suggestion on eBay's forum at least I got a reply:

<<"Hi *cosmicdebris,

Thanks for your post. I've passed along your policy suggestion to our coins manager for consideration.

Best,
Lulu
eBay Community Development">>