In case you don't get over to the Registry Forum
relayer
Posts: 10,570 ✭
relayer
Posts: 10,570 ✭
relayer
Posts: 10,570 ✭
times
Comments
Michael
As a footnote -- I have a couple of #1 proof sets @ NGC that have several 70s in them and I've won Registry Awards with those sets, but I personally don't view them as great sets or even great accomplishments. To be honest it's more of an ego thing -- getting that little certificate saying you're #1. Eventually I'm sure I'll get bored getting those and sell off the sets.
It's not one of the top 1000 events in numismatics this year, but it's an accomplishment. Only 3 such sets could be built (now).
If the guy wants to spend his money buying PR70DCAM statehood quarters, then more power to him. It's a Registry thang.
You could buy them from the mint for about $3.25 each (or about $160 for all 50 issued to date)
I've been making my SHQ Registry Set, and probably spent about $700 in submission fees (again for $160 worth of coins).
So you could spend $160 and have a complete set in US Mint plastic,
$850 for a set of PR69DCAM's in PCGS plastic,
or probably $20,000 for a set of PCGS PR70DCAM's.
But that is what the Registry is - how much money you can spend, whether it's for Statehood Quarters or for a Complete US Type Set.
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
It's not one of the top 1000 events in numismatics this year, but it's an accomplishment. Only 3 such sets could be built (now). PERHAPS THAT IS A BIT STRONG. WHILE I AGREE IT IS SURELY NOT THE TOP EVENT OR TWO OF THE NUMISMATIC YEAR, I HAVE NO DOUBT IT REQUIRED A GREAT DEAL OF PATIENCE AND PURSUIT TO LOCATE ALL THE COINS.
If the guy wants to spend his money buying PR70DCAM statehood quarters, then more power to him. It's a Registry thang. AGREED.
You could buy them from the mint for about $3.25 each (or about $160 for all 50 issued to date) THOSE 99 SILVERS CAN SET YOU BACK AS MUCH AS $30-$40/coin - THE DAYS OF $3.25 SILVER STATE QUARTERS ARE GONE FOR MANY DATES!!
I've been making my SHQ Registry Set, and probably spent about $700 in submission fees (again for $160 worth of coins). CONGRATS.
So you could spend $160 and have a complete set in US Mint plastic,
$850 for a set of PR69DCAM's in PCGS plastic,
or probably $20,000 for a set of PCGS PR70DCAM's. CHOICES - SOMETHING FOR EVERYONE!
But that is what the Registry is - how much money you can spend, whether it's for Statehood Quarters or for a Complete US Type Set
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE. OFTEN TIMES A TOP 20 SET OR EVEN A TOP 50 SET IS PERFECTLY FINE. I HAVE LITTLE INTEREST IN ACHIEVING THE #1 SPOT IN MOST OF THE REGISTRY SETS I AM PERSONALLY BUILDING. BUT, IT IS FUN TO TRY TO GET ON THE "FRONT PAGE" OR EVEN ACHIEVE A TOP 5 OR 10 SET OVER TIME.
Wondercoin
<< <i>Yeah, but the problem here, just as it is for all moderns, is what percentage of the modern sets have been submitted? Sure, you may see a low POP of some of these 70s, but that is because only a small percentage of the total mintage have been submitted for grading. Paying serious money for pop top moderns is like playing with a time bomb. >>
All those billions of coins in circulation if even one half of one percent are MS-70 then
we're talking literally billions and billions more to be graded. Certainly if you wait two
or three more generations to collect these coins then most of these MS-70's will be safe
to collect. In the mean time there are lots of great coins from the 19th century that are
perfectly safe and of course, coins from all over the world and dating back to antiquity.
In many cases with the modern world coins virtually every single example was melted
to make Chinese refrigerators which relieves collectors of the chore of assembling coll-
ections of this junk.
So just keep waiting and see what happens. In all probability millions of collectors will
find all these billions of coins over the next few years and the proices will plummet to more
reasonable levels. There's no good reason any modern shouyld sell for more than 50%
over face or so and MS-70's are mostly far to common to rate a premium at all.
Spend the crap.
that said, anyone could assemble a set of coins that looks almost exactly like that set, for just a few dollars a coin (as many have said before me)
but probably the owner of that set has money as no object and is just doing it for the fun and challenge.
for all we know, maybe they also have the top registry set of draped bust dimes or seated halves or something.
(edit: but somehow, I doubt that)
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>
If your gonna put that much money into a set like that you better invest in PCGS stock because if the company goes under, your left with a couple of hundred bucks worth of coins. >>
There are people who collect proofs in the highest possible grade. While this might
not appeal to me or most of the other posters in this thread, it is actually possible to
learn to recognize and appreciate the slight differences in the top grade specimens.
While PCGS has done a pretty good job of separating these by grade which has made
fairly large differences in value based on slabbed grade possible, it has by no means
created this market nor is the market entirely dependent on any one grading company.
This set would total well over a couple hundred dollars even if the coins were all culls.
<< <i>it is actually possible to learn to recognize and appreciate the slight differences in the top grade specimens.
>>
That is possible I suppose as you can convince your mind about anything but to "appreciate" a difference between an MS67 and MS70? I mean most of the modern proofs all pretty much look the same. I could probably go and find MS68's that are just as nice as the MS70s and pay a FRACTION of the money. But, then again, this Registry game really isn't about finding the nicest pieces possibly, is it? It's a numbers game plain and simple. He who has the highest numbered slab wins!
jom
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>it has by no means created this market nor is the market entirely dependent on any one grading company >>
Are you joking!!!!!!!! Take off the blinders
This is ENTIRELY dependent of the PCGS company for it survival. This difference between a 69 and 70 is TOTALLY a matter of opinion and in the case of the registry it is SOLEY the opinion of PCGS and thier standards that count.
In addition (for you Russ) there are many expensive items , the AH DCAM for example would have no real premium except that they have been included as a requirement in the registry. Without the registry the AH in DCAM would have little premium over any other 1964 DCAM.
The registry has MADE many coins what they are and their value is dependent on the registry for maintaining that value. No PCGS = NO PCGS Registry and a lot of coins lose a lot of value.
BTW (this doesn't just apply to moderns, there are many classics whose only premium has been created by the registry)
<< <i>In addition (for you Russ) there are many expensive items , the AH DCAM for example would have no real premium except that they have been included as a requirement in the registry. Without the registry the AH in DCAM would have little premium over any other 1964 DCAM. >>
You really don't have a clue. The difficulty of the coin in deep cameo stands on it's own merits, and it brought a substantial premium before the registry even existed. One should not make definitive statements about which one knows little.
Russ, NCNE
BTW (this doesn't just apply to moderns, there are many classics whose only premium has been created by the registry)"
Remember, on nearly all the Registry Required coins it was the COLLECTOR BASE that MADE many coins what they are - facilitated through the Registry accepting COLLECTOR DEMAND (and usually only after polls sent out to collector base to double check that the demand of collectors was as contemplated). Examples include:
1. Collector base wanted TY 1,2,3 1972(p) IKES - now Ty 2 in gem grades are selling for HUGE MONEY as they deserve to be IMHO.
2. Collector base wanted HEAVY MOTTO WASH QUARTERS be added to variety set - change in the works at PCGS. Top grade specimens are increasing in value best I can tell.
3. Collectors wanted TYPE 1 AND TYPE 2 JEFFS recognized for 1939 DATED COINS - now big demand for top grade specimens.
4. Collectors appear to desire 1950S/D ROOSIE recgnized as a variety by PCGS - I suspect that coin will soon have its "DAY IN THE SUN". Ditto for Peg Leg Ikes.
From everything I see, COLLECTOR DEMAND is dictating which coins get special registry treatment - rising pices often follow.
Wondercoin
<< <i>The difficulty of the coin in deep cameo stands on it's own merits, and it brought a substantial premium before the registry even existed. One should not make definitive statements about which one knows little. >>
For sure, specialized high-end collectors have been trying to build top quality sets long before the registry ever existed.
However, I also think it's pretty clear that registry sets have caused a huge increase in demand for pop tops. I don't see how it can be denied. So the registry sets *are* at least partially responsible, IMO, for the huge run-up in hypergraded coins, particularly the hypergraded moderns which are a pretty new market and is still evolving toward a stable price structure.
I think the fortunes of these pop top collections are largely tied to the continued popularity of registry sets. If people lose interest, *poof* -- there goes a LOT of the demand for the pop top moderns, and there goes the pricing. Of course, if the registry sets keep *increasing* in popularity, it can continue upward -- though there's always the risk of additional supply coming in as more and more raw coins are slabbed.
I guess this segment of the market hasn't established itself yet as one that will always be popular, like collecting Lincolns or Morgans. It's not yet certain that it isn't just a "craze" like the BU roll craze a few decades back. If it survives a down period without collectors bailing out in droves and losing interest, then maybe it will have the staying power and demonstrate that it can find firm footing on the pricing structure.
I have found it rewarding to look upon every collector and collection with positive (but educational) comments, plaudits, and suggestions. In a way, my numismatic (volunteer) position requires it (ANA Section 25), but courtesy demands it too.
A custodian of modest means stops by my room every morning before school to show off his latest acquisition . . . and although it isn't a key date or low-pop item, a circ. Merc. is as important to him as it's ever going to get in his life. Through this . . . he's become a member of the ANA and local clubs and has embarked on a learning journey that will last much longer than the years he spent in formalized school.
I just have to keep hammering away to keep him from making 'junque' purchases off e-bay !!!!!!
Congrats to all who have claimed spots on the Registry . . . and bravo to all those who soldier on in every obscure (or not so obscure) facet of this hobby . . . .
DRUNNER
<< <i><< The difficulty of the coin in deep cameo stands on it's own merits, and it brought a substantial premium before the registry even existed. One should not make definitive statements about which one knows little. >>
For sure, specialized high-end collectors have been trying to build top quality sets long before the registry ever existed.
However, I also think it's pretty clear that registry sets have caused a huge increase in demand for pop tops. >>
Of course the registry has created demand for pop top coins - ALL pop top coins, not just moderns. There is no question about that. However, that was not his assertion. He stated that without the registry the Accented Hair in DCAM would carry little premium over the regular variety in DCAM. That's simply not true, and hasn't been for over a decade.
Russ, NCNE
First off, CONGRATS on the PR70DCAM. Any DCAM, let alone a complete set, is beautiful.
As a newbie I have noticed the...let me call it... tension between “modern” and “old.” I find it almost paradoxical. As an individual in my mid 20’s I could choose to easily begin collecting moderns. (However given limited financial resources, I won’t be collecting PR70DCAM’s (or even MS69DCAM’s) any time soon.) Some may not consider buying coins from the US mint or buying the latest MS69 slab on shopathometv.com truly collecting, but if it follows a goal you’ve set for yourself arguably it is collecting. Now wait 60 to 65 years, suddenly those “moderns” are an awesome set, highly regarded as great by those of us that love “old” coins.
That’s what is so great about coin collecting…There’s a niche (or more) that will please almost anyone. And if it doesn’t please you today just wait…
Now back to the point of financial feasibility. Does it really make sense to spend all that money on the moderns? For some -- certainly not. However remember that both Chevy and Rolls-Royce exist for a reason. Think about it…
Steve
Kerry/Edwards
It is also remarkable that it's mostly the old timers doing it. These are the people who have
lived through the market ups and downs. They have seen the grading companies and the
computers arise over the decades and now many seem to have forgotten what they saw. It
was not the grading companies which made the sale of the high grade collections bring un-
heard of prices in the mid-'70's. It was not the grading companies which caused the price of
PL and gem Morgans to go sky high in the late '70's. It wasn't the grading companies which
cused a broadening of interest in most obsolete high grade US coins in the early '80's. When
the grading companies did start it was primarily for the purpose of making coins more "fungible"
or to set their prices in stone as a commodity. Much of the need to establish real values for coins
was the simple fact that the market was moving toward higher graded coins. As grade premiums
escalatedthere was increased need to know exactly what grade a coin was in. The grading com-
panies did in conjunction with ebay and computers make it possible to collect more common coins
in high grade for the first time. Imagine trying to find the finest '48-S Franklin with no computer
and no grading companies. The costs would be staggering and the amount of effort for just this
one coin would be daunting.
The grading companies are a result of these markets. The registry is a result of these markets.
The "high" prices are a result of supply and demand.
Those who choose to bash moderns might care to ponder on the simple fact that many of these
collectors are younger and are the future of the hobby. They would do well to consider that the
modern markets have exploded like this on very very little demand. Most importantly they would
be well advised to remember the the pricing structure of classics is predicated on a very high de-
mand. If this demand were to erode over time there would be dramatic changes in many valuations.
They might also remember the old adage that one catches more flies with honey than with vinegar.
wow, if that's the case, just think how "awesome" the pre-civil war coins will be regarded!
The Draped Bust coins will be just this side of 300!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>
I've been making my SHQ Registry Set, and probably spent about $700 in submission fees (again for $160 worth of coins).
So you could spend $160 and have a complete set in US Mint plastic,
$850 for a set of PR69DCAM's in PCGS plastic,
or probably $20,000 for a set of PCGS PR70DCAM's.
But that is what the Registry is - how much money you can spend, whether it's for Statehood Quarters or for a Complete US Type Set. >>
Good comments, Relayer.
I don't spend any time on the registry forum, since I prefer collecting raw 100-year-old coins I can grade to paying a premium to a grading company for a temporary stroking of the ego.