PR70CAM is PR70CAM right?
TWOOFCLUBS
Posts: 8
Regardless of grader? I own an ICG - PR70CAM 1990S Jefferson Nickel. Isn't it a sure bet that it would grade the same if submitted to any other grading service?
Sorry if it's a stupid question but isn't a perfect coin a perfect coin?
Sorry if it's a stupid question but isn't a perfect coin a perfect coin?
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ICG is gonna be PR68 CAM at best if you send it to PCGS or NGC
Some grading companies are known to be more lenient with high grades than others. In other words, what one company might call a PR70CAM doesn't necessarily mean it's a "perfect coin". It meets that company's criteria for a PR70CAM grade, but it may not meet other companies'.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Grading is subjective and is a skill of art more than science. There are standards, but not all grading companies use the same ones.
PCGS and NGC will back their grades with money - it you buy a PCGS or NGC PR70DCAM and show it to them that it's only a PR69DCAM, they will pay you the difference in value. No other companies do this, so their grade doesn't really mean anything.
A PR70DCAM is defined as "fully struck, as struck and flawless under 5x magnification". Get out your 5 times magnifier and see if you can find 1 flaw on the coin. If so, it's not a 70.
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<< <i>Isn't it a sure bet that it would grade the same if submitted to any other grading service? >>
I find that to be a rather unusual way of phrasing the question.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>Isn't it a sure bet that it would grade the same if submitted to any other grading service? >>
I find that to be a rather unusual way of phrasing the question.
Russ, NCNE >>
Not sure what you mean but perhaps I should have said 'Isn't is a certainty' ?
and that's what most all those 72 up coins in ridiculous holders where all the coins,at least the vast majority of and that that same vast majority of are bringing STUPID money where only a fraction of the jillions of those sets made since 72 have actually been looked through.
the true cameo era for rarities is 1936 to 1970 and sometimes 71,till you get a hunnerd box at bid and score dozens of "supposed to be 69dcam" halves.
then in 2 or 3 years more that same item will be hundreds and worth 20 bux....heh...
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Anybody have Doop Translator 2.0 installed?
Russ, NCNE >>
I use the ICG graded nickel in conjunction with an ANACS graded off-center nearly blank 5 cent planchet to explain what happens when coins are made. The PR70 shows the results of an excellent strike. The undated off-center has only the smallect pinch (5/8" at the edge) to show it was struck at all. These and many other certified and raw coins are part of a talk I give.
Until I was asked recently why there were so many different grading services I had not really given the idea of different grading criteria much thought. I just figured it was all pretty much the same.
if you want cameo proof coinage that is scarce to truly rare,then dont buy bunk b/s slabs,buy the cameo
plus,end your search at 1970,many issues are rarer than many 19th and early 20th century coins of all types
in 71 they changed processes and equipment at the mint and got better with totally different processes
by 72 MOST all were intended to be and in fact are either cameo or ultra cameo in majority by WAY FAR
by 1978/9 all are generally blasted cameos pr68dcam or above....
except for those small percentage that are dogs sets stored improperly or have bad carbon on the cents..
another year to 2 years no-one will be even wasting slab money as the pops will be absurd
the biggest farce of all of numismatics has been the 10's upon 10's of millions of $$ these folks have blown on this "modern" stuff that is really only worth it's pro-rated proof set value of about 1-3% of what was paid for it in a ridiculous craze and heaven-forbid, SUPPOSED to be still in these common every day joe proof sets
When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
Thomas Paine
even though you partake in reaping from it and we dont
we stop at 70, unless a sweet deal a fat 50x money net return in 3 mos on a 71 proof set deal can be had
then we'll go for it...but we dont seek it out..
<< <i>be nice Russ, you know the drill and you know it's a joke.....
even though you partake in reaping from it and we dont
we stop at 70 >>
Strange. I just checked my eBay sales for the last 30 days and there's not a single coin in the bunch minted after 1970.
You must be thinking of somebody else who's "reaping from it".
Russ, NCNE
"Using criteria established by ICG, the experience of the grader and a 5X loupe this coin was determined at the time of grading to be PR70CAM. There is some subjective opinion used in the grading process. There is no guarantee that the same coin would receive the same grade if resubmitted to IGC or any other 3rd party grading service."
<< <i>Using criteria established by ICG, the experience of the grader and a 5X loupe this coin was determined at the time of grading to be PR70CAM. There is some subjective opinion used in the grading process. There is no guarantee that the same coin would receive the same grade if resubmitted to IGC or any other 3rd party grading service." >>
Sounds like you understand the term subjective
HOWEVER...
Remember if PCGS or NGC is wrong, they will pay you the difference in value.
If ICG (or anybody else) is wrong, well that's just too bad and you lose.
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<< <i>
HOWEVER...
Remember if PCGS or NGC is wrong, they will pay you the difference in value.
If ICG (or anybody else) is wrong, well that's just too bad and you lose. >>
I'll keep that in mind when talking to some of the older collectors. Some will take it as a challenge and try to prove them wrong.
PCGS recently spent $30,000 to buy a 1963 Lincoln 1c PR70DCAM that had turned in the holder (probably from an inproper dip before submission) with spots on it.
When ICG buys back their 70's that have problems, then ICG will be on the same level as PCGS and NGC
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BTW I used to love to play Hearts in High School. I guess I should try it again
ICG PR69DCAM = PCGS PR67DCAM (sometimes PR67CAM)
As already stated, if you are going to put serious money into cameos, my advice is to avoid ICG slabs.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
in the defense of ICG,Teletrade does accept those for auction,i have neve owned one,but i have owned some of the other crap and theyre reputation is well deserved !