1921 D... opinion on grade please

ibzman350

Todays arrrival a JOH-2, the seller gave it a grade but I don't believe it






and the reason I don't believe the seller is in this pic



Herb

Sphinx357

rub up the a**
AU all the way

Wolf359

Herb, AU58.

A later die state of JOH-2 was found with a much larger break (by yours truly) and was certified in March.

VAM.

LincolnCentMan

I'd say AU58... MS62 if there's no rub, certainly no better than MS63.

David

ibzman350

thanx for the input guys.

I'm learning a little something every day and this coin was one of my better lessons.

I see rub on the wreath below the eagle, the seller called it a 63. I'm calling it a 59

Next question....Why 58 vs 59 ??? I now it doesn't make a bit of difference 58..59, 57...59, just curious as to why.

Jack.. nice find


Herb

100proof1957

Herb,
at least when i sell sliders i call em sliders !

dorkkarl

ms-63

K S

coinguy89

When I saw the date, I thought it was gonna be a merc dime, stupid me. I would probably go with a low uncirculated grade, not a very appealing coin, probably a MS-62.

alergar

"the seller gave it a grade but I don't believe it"

So what grade did the seller quote for the coin?

Looks like a MS62 or MS63.

XpipedreamR

I was thinking 62-63.

bestbino

Well, I must be getting a little better at this. Before reading all the threads, I would of said this is a MS61.

Zulan

I am still learning my grading, but why would this be in the MS area instead of the AU. I see scratches on the face and under the "P" on the face of the coin, and (I could be mistaking weak strike for rub) wear on the breast of the eagle. I also see other nicks on the coin.

How would this grade into the MS area? My newbie opinion is this would fall into the AU range somewhere. If I am wrong please enlighten me.

Thanks,
Zulan

XpipedreamR

Well, Zulan...what you're seeing as wear, could be wear of course...you probably can't tell from a picture for sure.

But those high points that don't have the same "frostiness" as the rest of the coin can also be from 1) weaker strike and 2) contact with other coins. The various dings can also be attributed to contact with other bags, such as might take place in a bag of coins.

In the close-ups, it looks to me more like a weaker strike on those high points.

Having lots of marks doesn't necessarily mean that it's circulated or worn. In fact, in the grades of 60-61 or so, you're going to see a lot of totally banged-up coins that can be so marked up, you'd be better off getting a nice AU58 piece instead.

dorkkarl

hey zulan, a ms-63 should be a typical unc coin, which for morgan dollars will mean unc coins w/ bagmarks, abraions, hits, etc. if you were to reach into a mint bag of new morgans 10 times, what would 8 of the coins look like? 8/10 coins are your basic ms-63's. about 10% will be worse (ms-60 - ms-62), & 10% will be better (ms-64+).

the coin depicted looks like what 80% of unc morgans look like, more or less.

K S

Stuart

IBZMan: You have selected a very interesting Morgan Dollar for discussion. The 1921, 1921-D and 1921-S Morgans have very different striking and luster characteristics from the Morgans struck pre-1904 (inclusive).

All 3 are rare in DMPL and very scarce in true PL designation. They are typically also weakly struck as exhibited by the wreath on the reverse of your illustrated coin.

At first glance I was thinking that your coin was a very lustrous MS-64. If there's some rub, it's not on the wreath, but rather on Liberty's cheek and in the hair above her ear, as well as the breast feathers above the eagle.

However, although very difficult to tell from a photo, I am leaning towards that not being circulation rub but rather mint frost luster breaks which could have been caused by coin-to-coin contact friction in the mint bag -- which would technically make your coin uncirculated.

I do not see any obvious circulation friction rub in the unprotected portions of the coin fields, which is usually an indication of circulation.

Based on the superior luster and strike for a 1921-D, I'd grade your coin an MS-64, and would be pleased with the dealer having sold it to you as a conservatively graded MS-63.

Please advise us on the results if you decide to submit the coin to PCGS or any other TPGS.

I hope that this info has been helpful for you as you progress through the learning process.

prooflike

Nice die breaks!

If it doesn't have rub, it would go 63

ibzman350

<< <i>Nice die breaks! >>



Proof.... that was the reason I bought the coin....Jack got me hooked

thanks all for your input...I learned alot from the above replies.


as always you guys rule

Herb


BTW the seller called it a 63 and I need to apologize to him,

DennisH

Looks like a 62 to me because of the nice lustre. Without it I'd guess 61.

Myqqy

I think Stuart and Dorkkarl make excellent points. From the photos presented, I would guess that this is an attractive 63- it looks frostier than the average 21-D, AND it has really cool die breaks!! The cheek looks pretty scuffy, but I still think it's an attractive coin. Trying to find an attractive, frosty 21-D can be a chore....

JrGMan2004

You should put that it's a Morgie in your title I got excited thinkin it was gonna be a '21-D Merc......

ibzman350

Point well taken....George, will do from now on

Herb

FC57Coins

I agree with Karl and Stuart - MS63

lordmarcovan

High 62 or low 63 was my guess.



<< <i>....Why 58 vs 59 ??? I now it doesn't make a bit of difference 58..59, 57...59, just curious as to why. >>



There is no 59 on the Sheldon scale, at least not as it is adopted by the modern grading services. You've got 50, 53, 55, and 58, and then MS. I'm not really sure why, though I have an idea it goes back to Sheldon's early system, where the price had something to do with it, too. His index coin was the Chain cent, I believe, and back then a 58 would have been worth 58 dollars. But of course the prices outpaced his system, and only the numeral designations remained.

A lot of folks will use "AU59" in a tongue-in-cheek manner, in quotation marks, and everyone knows what they are talking about. But there is no such grade, technically. I see a lot of folks using "VG7" and "F18", too.

ibzman350

thanx Lord for clearing up the Sheldon scale for me.

I need to tweek in my database, I have quite a few of my coins listed as 59s

Herb

Stuart

Praised be the Lord and Thank the Lord (Marcovan that is...)

nwcs

High end nice AU

XpipedreamR

<< <i>High end nice AU >>





How high? Like AU62?