SO, DID YOU KNOW AMERICAN PLATINUM EAGLES WERE "REAL" COINS?
wondercoin
Posts: 16,982 ✭✭✭✭✭
REGARDING THE ISSUE OF WHETHER THESE PLATINUM EAGLES ARE MERELY "BULLION":
The US Mint Web page states:
"All American Eagles are legal tender coins, with their face value imprinted in U.S. dollars. Although their face value is largely symbolic, it provides proof of their authenticity as official U.S. coinage. The one-ounce platinum coin displays the highest face value($100) ever to appear on a U.S. coin"
Lets see.....legal tender.... U.S. minted coin.....
The U.S. Mint changed the landscape of U.S. coins a bit by minting the first $100 legal tender(circulate it if you want to) coin.
Happy 4th everyone!
Wondercoin
The US Mint Web page states:
"All American Eagles are legal tender coins, with their face value imprinted in U.S. dollars. Although their face value is largely symbolic, it provides proof of their authenticity as official U.S. coinage. The one-ounce platinum coin displays the highest face value($100) ever to appear on a U.S. coin"
Lets see.....legal tender.... U.S. minted coin.....
The U.S. Mint changed the landscape of U.S. coins a bit by minting the first $100 legal tender(circulate it if you want to) coin.
Happy 4th everyone!
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
0
Comments
I just wanted to beat your shadow to the first reply.
edited to add my forgotten smiley which clearly makes my smart assed remark AOK.
Wondercoin
<< <i>tired of the "BS" that surrounds this place. >>
There certainly is a lot of that.
Click here for an example.
Russ, NCNE
Wondercoin
and then after the initial slamming of Pinnacle and/or Mark Feld posts this
<< <i> Nicely said, Scott. >>
to Pinnacle's thread about the banner.
I keep forgetting to add that darn smiley.
Wondercoin
The point I tried to make - albeit not very well - is that if the mint doesn't circulate the coin in one form or another then it is not really a 'real' coin but rather a piece of art - much like all the various commemoratives that seem to abound. It turns out that the US Treasury uses the intrinsic value of the metal of which the artcoin is made as it's own standard (i.e. no gold in Fort Knox). It would be interesting to see if the mint continues production of these things if people would only accept them for face value.
Just a little thought on the matter.
By the way, great art is worth extra $$$ all you have to do is find someone willing to pay it.
CLif
<< <i>Russ: Perhaps you may learn something other than your myopic hair fetish. >>
Uh, wondercoin, you forgot the smiley.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Goose: I disagree. I think it is good that he edited whatever comments bothered you.
Wondercoin >>
First off, the comments didn't bother me. I have grown accustomed to such comments and even expect such from either of you.
Second, of course they're not "BS" now. They've been edited to read all kissyface now.
Second, of course they're not "BS" now. They've been edited to read all kissyface now.
Goose: Glad to hear they didn't bother you. If Steve resolved any issues he may have had with Pinnacle or Mark (which I doubt he even had) - all the better. Now, if you have nothing to add to this thread regarding the issue at hand, please PM me and we can exchange our thoughts in private concerning your feelings about Mark and my feelings about Steve.
Wondercoin
My feelings about Mark? Mark's a nice, helpful, tactful, intelligent, and friendly person.
I'm confused......what exactly WAS the issue at hand??? I think it may have been "Hey, let's start a new thread and try to slam DD55."
sound about right?
<< <i>I think it may have been "Hey, let's start a new thread and try to slam DD55." >>
I thought it was a thread about bullion coins that dealers would like people to believe are real coins.
Strange, the US Mint even calls them bullion.
Russ, NCNE
Wondercoin
<< <i>American Eagle Bullion Coins for Investors
Congressionally authorized American Eagle Bullion coins provide investors with a convenient and cost-effective way to add a small amount of physical platinum, gold, or silver to their investment portfolios. Since their launch in 1986, gold, platinum and silver American Eagles have become leading bullion coin investment products. >>
Russ, NCNE
Wondercoin
<< <i>do you see any way that my quote from the Mint can co-exist with your quotes from the Mint? >>
Just making sure all of the information is provided instead of only that which is beneficial to those with a vested interest.
Russ, NCNE
ok........so let me paraphrase your eloquent paragraph.......
it's ok for Wondercoin and Registrycoin to post on this board and insult and belittle dealers and members because the
Now forgive me but I promised my 2 girls I would take them to Target to see mommy.
Wondercoin
Sorry Goose - it's PM's or nothing. Now, back to the topic at hand.
Wondercoin
<< <i>Russ - Do you have an answer to the question concerning co-existence? >>
What? You didn't like the answer that illuminated your agenda?
Russ, NCNE
truth hurts, huh.
Wondercoin
<< <i>?
The point I tried to make - albeit not very well - is that if the mint doesn't circulate the coin in one form or another then it is not really a 'real' coin but rather a piece of art - much like all the various commemoratives that seem to abound.
>>
There may well be different kinds of coins just as there are different kinds of everything else.
Certainly an American eagle will never circulate at face value because its value is greater so
in some sense it is not a coin. This hardly makes it uncollectible. Just as people collect art, anti-
ques, stamps, or historic artifacts they also collect beautiful metallic sculptures in platinum and
other metals. Certainly these "coins" have all the other attributes of being coins and some will
see them as being coins moreso than clads (which contain no precious metal), more than "coins"
like the 1804 dollar (which were presentation pieces or illegally made and often defaced), more
than modern proofs or classic proofs (which never circulated). Each collector defines what a coin
is and what he wants to collect. When you cross over into some realms than you simply become
a token or medal or art or some other sort of collector.
Some items should obviously be excluded from the definition of being a coin. Eagles are not among
them.
Don't get too worked up over anything I say, it never means anything anyway. I was just having some fun with Mr. Flatulence.
My daily inventory consists of as little as around 1%-2% platinum Eagles. But, I can tell you the collectors that seriously collect them are quite passionate about these coins. Some truly do not want to post here due to the redicule they believe they will likely endure by posting about these coins. I can handle it. I really do think they are very neat coins.
Wondercoin
<< <i>I was just having some fun with Mr. Flatulence. >>
Careful, Jon, his Marine wannabe son is even badder than he is.
Russ, NCNE
This thread is too much like watching the evening news and having the media shove Kerry down my throat.
PS
and some of the prettiest the mint has made!
the '99 proofs being the only U.S. coins with an alligator on it!
WOW Platinum coins are real huh?
2003's best set of the year went to a Platinum set, never mind that I own it, the fact is a Platinum set was and still is the best of the best.
First of all for one of these jokers to get a complete set it would cost them about 35k for a set that's not including any 70's not to mention it would cost about 5k a year to maintain in 69.
By the way Russ I was a Marine, got discharged in 1988 and graduated with a PhD in Ichthyology in 1991.
I'll be 37 soon and hopefully retired next year.
I'll be doing coins for a very long time once my commitment to put in a full 20 years into my tropical fish business.
My kid is 16 almost 17 and he's already further ahead in life than you'll ever be` Russ.
Imagine that a 50 year old fat guy picking a fight with a 16 year old.
Also Russ, if I liquidated ALL my coins dont you think I can retire just from the metal values alone?
Oh and yes the one with the nicest car wins.....
Catch us if you can....
I told him to go to Purdue for 2 years, if he wants to go into the Corps. then he will be an Officer not a jarhead as you call us Marines.
I wasnt blessed with weathy parents, but my son has me as long as I'm around I will continue to fight to better his life and the life of my family.
My life was made a long time ago (self-made)
Russ get a life buddy, life is short as it is...
But, in any event, I think the Platinum series is kind of cool, gets little respect (like I said some collectors are fearful of even posting on the series for fear of getting bashed!!) and at the risk of being accused of "hyping" a series I currently have (2) coins available for sale out of literally thousands of coins available for sale on all (3) of my websites - well, so be it.
Again, happy 4th - I am out of here for a while.
Wondercoin
One of the regular forum members sent me his assessment of why the above terms are a distinction WITH a difference. I incorporate that into my thoughts here.
If one clicks on Russ' big Platinum coin in his attachment, one would find the quote I opened this thread with. Russ' page likely got as far as the governments' advertising and marketing divisions. What Congress determines to be the case is different and distinguishable I believe from what The Treasury Dept. deems the best way to hit the American public with advertising on a website.
This also demonstrates to me the possible perception of these coins in the eyes of the folks in charge of marketing them to the American public right now - unlike Peace Medal and Keel Boat nickels and unlike state quarters - perhaps it is viewed that few collectors COLLECT these platinum coins at this time. Since I suspect a significant % of orders are coming from major BULLION DEALERS (I suspect virtually all of the MS coins for that matter based upon the way the mint has set up the program) - then, "logic" suggests that one market them as bullion coins.
Thus, IMHO, we appear to possibly have the "perfect storm" for why a very fascinating coin continues to be widely ignored as a legitimate collectible, bolstered by the U.S. Mint's very own marketing sceme.
Just my 2 cents on the issue - I welcome your constructive thoughts as well.
Wondercoin
bruce scher
In Europe, they carry large denomination "change" - here in the US, it would be fun to have a handful of $100 coins.
Wondercoin
It is hardly unusual for a government agency to send entirely contradictory information
to the public in many forms. With the mint this can be caused by using different defini-
tions depending on their point or the audience. They usually describe mint set coins as
ordinary coins packaged for sale to collectors, but by this they simply mean these are the
same designs as the coins made for circulation. Only on rare occasion will their literature
mention that these coins are fresh issues from new dies set under higher pressure which
are struck on single presses and often with specially prepared dies.
There are many "perfect storms" brewing and more people are discovering them every day.
Most collectors don't realize or understand the implications of the fact that new coin is ex-
tremely difficult to obtain and has been for many years. This has been largely the result of
the fact that people have not made any attempt to acquire it so the mechanisms by which
it used to be obtained have broken down. This has resulted in virtually the entire populations
of many "coins" going straight into circulation.
There are many changes occuring and there'll be plenty of storms blowing through the hobby.
I'm going back to my other forum now. Bye.
The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others.
Guns have only two enemies, rust and liberals.
Criminals love gun control, it makes their profession safer.
If guns are outlawed can we use swords?
A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone
if bullion is "legal tender" -- answer this scenario ---
I have my own lawfirm, I pay myself, not in currency but in platinum $100 Eagles -- $1,000 face value each year.
What should I pay taxes to the US govt. on -- the $1,000 "legal tender" amount or the approx. $700,000.00 value of the bullion?
If you say the $1000.00, would you represent me in court?
Michael
Legal tender represents the "Authority" and the Coin represents the physical presence of that "Authority". "Legal Tender" is defined as: money acceptable by law in payment of an obligation. Hence the $100 face value on the platinum, and in this case backed by the full faith of the US government. Coin is: a stamped piece of metal, issued by a government as money. Hence the physical platinum coin. Lets go to the definition of money - stamped pieces of metal...,authorized by a government as a medium of exchange.
By the way the Webster Dictionary I'm holding defines a "Coin" as: a piece of stamped metal, issued by a government as money. "Money" as : ...a media of exchange, and "Exchange": to give or receive (something) for another thing; barter;trade. Funny, my Webster Dictionary does not mention anything about "Circulation" in the direct definition of "Coin".
"Real" as: authentic;genuine , so a "Real Coin" is sort of redundant in some respects if a government issued it and of course if PCGS has graded it etc.
Fratt: Two comments on the above:
1. Lord knows I spend way too much time on "coins"!! I need to get to the beach too - heck it is right down the street!!
2. How does the above play into your scenerio in your opinion?
Happy 4th everyone.
Wondercoin
<< <i>I have my own lawfirm, I pay myself, not in currency but in platinum $100 Eagles -- $1,000 face value each year. What should I pay taxes to the US govt. on -- the $1,000 "legal tender" amount or the approx. $700,000.00 value of the bullion? >>
Can't help you on the legal end but I can sell you that $1,000 face value in Platinum Eagles for far less than its $700,000 "bullion value".
RELLA
who boasts of twenty years experience in his craft
while in fact he has had only one year of experience...
twenty times.
If you find sunken treasure on the bottom of the ocean, say some Spanish doubloons, off the coast of Forida, is it taxable, and who do you pay the taxes too, if its found in "state" waters not international waters. Can you pay yourself in those also?
Wondercoin
You call them legal tender, but by your definition I should be able to pay myself in $100 platinum "coins" and only have to pay taxes on the $1000.
Do we have any tax attorneys in the house? Have I found a wrinkle in the tax code that I can exploit?
I would love to earn $700,000 of bullion and only be taxed $380.
Michael
Actually, if the $1000 face value were [legally] your only income, you wouldn't pay $380 in taxes. You would pay no taxes at all.
Edited to add: BTW, $1000 face isn't $700,000. It's only 10 oz. of metal.
Russ, NCNE
Fratt: OK - let's make it easier for you -
Say $20 Saints then
Wondercoin
> What should I pay taxes to the US govt. on -- the $1,000 "legal tender" amount or the approx. $700,000.00 value of the bullion?
As someone who doesn't collect bullion but can access the us mint website, it looks like $1000 legal tender in platinum would
only cost you around $10,000. Where is the $700,000 from?
-KHayse
>please PM me and we can exchange our thoughts in private concerning your feelings about Mark and my feelings about Steve.
p.s. Mitch, are you trying to find out if he "like" likes you?
p.p.s. I would love to own a 1 ounce platinum coin but I just can't seem to allocate that much money for something I know I'll
be able to buy next year (which I've been saying for several years now).