hey look at what I just won off Ebay **UPDATED AGAIN, PLEASE READ**
mrpaseo
Posts: 4,753 ✭✭✭
Be easy on me now...Remember I've been gone for some time now...remember what I have been doing and go easy 
OK, let me have it.
Ray
Remember, I'm not only bidding on paper clips but I'm currently in the led
OK, let me have it.
Ray
Remember, I'm not only bidding on paper clips but I'm currently in the led
0
Comments
Edit: oh. You DID win it.
Hmm. Might be a good score. That holder scares hell outta me, though.
2nd edit: damn, if we ever needed proof that the word about Accugrade finally got out, here it is!
I'm going to overlook the slab it's in.I hope it is a MS66 for your sake.The pick is to small to tell anything.
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
I hope that this is one were ACG screwed up and graded correctly.....
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Joe.
FrederickCoinClub
We ARE watching you.
I E-mailed the guy to see what his return poicy is (I don't think this will turn out in my favor
Oh well
I'm stupid, your smart...
I'm Ugly, You good looking...
I stink, you smell good...
<< <i>Well, I received the 1909 VDB, AU-58 RB (Finger printed/spot filled) Lincoln >>
Seems he spent some time with his photo editing software. It sure looks full mint red in that image.
Russ, NCNE
Send it to NCS!
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
<< <i>Well, I'll be nice and not say I told you so.
I still maintain that's a full red
"Mike,
I have question in reference to your return policy. I viewed the auction that I won and do not see it noted. Please advise on your procedures. The auction in question is 3903156657 . As you can see you quoted saying, "This spot free beauty is totally original and problem free..." Clearly this coin is wrongfully graded and full of spots. I do not fault you for the wrong grade however, your statement about being spot free is false. I do not purchase coins, especially copper coins, with spots on them and purchased this coin with the information that it was a spot free coin.
I'm sure you can understand my situation,
Thank you for your time,
Ray"
Mike promply replied with this:
Hello Ray
Have you recieved the coin yet ?
I am at home and do not know if it has been mailed
Since I am just the broker so to speak
and I make no claims at to graded coins regardless of who the grading company
may be, my policy is generally that they are sold as is where is
However since I do not hav coin in front of me, I cannot say one way or the other
if it is spotted or not and cannot tell anything from photo
But by all means if you have recieved and it is spotted
feel free to send it on back
A hundred dollar coin is hardly worth a hasstle to me
In the future I may suggest that you ask return policy first
as now I am out the listing fees and return postage
Thanks again
Mike"
and this...
By the way
I was alerted by 5 sellers about your comments regarding this item
As I said I do not have coin in front of me to check for spots
But I have no problem taking coin back if you are unhappy
I would expect you to post that in your next comment regarding this item
I make no claims as to my opinion regarding any graded coin
professional or not
But I wpudl bet you 1000 dollars that the coin you won and recieved
would garde Mint State and not AU 58 at any grading service of your choice
And you can post that also
Thanks again
Mike
Here is my response
"Mike,
Yes, I received the coin in question today and it is as I have described. I mentioned AU-58 due to the print on the front, granted it's not a whole print but usually in my experience any sort of print makes the coin circulated, not MS. As stated in my original E-mail, I do not blame you for the grade, please understand that.
You mentioned a hundred dollar coin is hardly worth a hassle to you, I'm happy for your situation. My situation on the other hand is not as fortunate as yours. You see, I'm a Staff Sergeant in the US Army, just returning from a year in Iraq. My wife is an at home Mom and I have one daughter. Granted I did receive a little extra money for the deployment, I must as a single income family on a meek military paycheck watch where ever cent goes. Therefor, when I do reward myself with a coin or two, I try to buy decent coins. I never blame the seller for the grade on a professional graded slab, only the words they chose to list their coins. I thank you whole heartedly for accepting this coin in return as I understand your situation as a seller, and the situation at hand. Again, I am happy for your good position.
Concerning your comment on five sellers contacting you on my comments. I apologize for this and assure you I had no idea they were going to contact you. I frequent a few coin chat forums and mentioned the purchase due to it being an ACG slab, of which they always say, never buy ACG. When I received the coin, I updated the coin with the information that I gave to you. I will return to the forum and will comment on your great nature, your mature response, and that you will allow the return of the coin.
Respectfully I thank you for your understanding of this situation,
Ray"
As you can see, Mike is handeling this great. I will be returning the coin tomorrow.
Whomever E-mailed him, thank you.
Ray
I agree with mozeppa.Crack it and send to PCGS.If it gets the same grade,you've done great.Even if it drops a grade you did well.
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
If I said it once, I've said it a hundred times. Do not buy ACG coins sight unseen.
<< <i>I was alerted by 5 sellers about your comments regarding this item >>
<< <i>As you can see, Mike is handeling this great. >>
One has to ponder how it would have been handled without the alert about this thread.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>One has to ponder how it would have been handled without the alert about this thread. >>
NO RETURNS ON THIRD PARTY PROFESSIONALLY GRADED COINS
<< <i>Be easy on me now...Remember I've been gone for some time now...remember what I have been doing and go easy
OK, let me have it.
Ray
Remember, I'm not only bidding on paper clips but I'm currently in the led
I'm sorry this happened to you. I don't know much about ACG but I have a rule: Buy only NGC, PCGS, and ANACS slabbed coins. Always be careful when ordering off ebay. Becareful when the advertiser uses flashy words,( For example, "completetly", "absolutely", "As seen on TV!", "wonderful", or words that exaggerate) or the deal sounds to good to be true. Golden rule: If the deal is too good to be true, IT IS .
I'm glad you went to iraq and helped our country. That is a great deed and it hurts me when people like you get ripped off like this. Your handling the situation very well and I hope all goes well with the refund. Let me know what happens
"Handeling" it "great" is a statement that should be reserved for sellers who don't post misleading auctions in the first instance.
Auction text: "This spot free beauty is totally original and problem free and has been graded Mint State Uncirculated 66 RED !!"
Coin in hand: "Well, I received the 1909 VDB, AU-58 RB (Finger printed/spot filled) Lincoln that was falsly listed . . . ."
It is plain seller tinseltime25's auction description is divorced from reality. Seller added to blacklist.
In the sellers defense, he lists over 300 auctions a week (As seen from his current listings). He mentioned that he Cut and Pastes his auctions and changes a few appropriate words. This is obviously one of the downfalls of listing so many auctions at once. I have never, and probably will never list mroe than 10 auctions at a time. Then again, I do not do this for a living.
"Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters." - Albert Einstein
I was really impressed!
You really hit him right between the eyes!
<< <i>
<< <i>Be easy on me now...Remember I've been gone for some time now...remember what I have been doing and go easy
OK, let me have it.
Ray
Remember, I'm not only bidding on paper clips but I'm currently in the led
I'm sorry this happened to you. I don't know much about ACG but I have a rule: Buy only NGC, PCGS, and ANACS slabbed coins. Always be careful when ordering off ebay. Becareful when the advertiser uses flashy words,( For example, "completetly", "absolutely", "As seen on TV!", "wonderful", or words that exaggerate) or the deal sounds to good to be true. Golden rule: If the deal is too good to be true, IT IS .
I'm glad you went to iraq and helped our country. That is a great deed and it hurts me when people like you get ripped off like this. Your handling the situation very well and I hope all goes well with the refund. Let me know what happens
GoldCoinLover, comparing this post to your "newbie" posts from a few weeks ago...well, you've come a long way, baby!!!
At this rate, you'll be running the place by summer. Keep up the good work.
<< <i>Yes, I received the coin in question today and it is as I have described. I mentioned AU-58 due to the print on the front, granted it's not a whole print but usually in my experience any sort of print makes the coin circulated, not MS. >>
Ummmm.... nobody has anything to say about this?
Instead of "will be," try "is running the place." I called out that scammer coinmovers in this thread (purchased utter trash from him in the past). While my language was harsh, it was richly deserved, and I certainly don't need to be told what to say and where to say it. Didn't say anything then, but I'm saying it now.
Now, anyone want to debate PNG?
Edited for formatting.
Thanks,
Ray
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
<< <i>GoldCoinLover, comparing this post to your "newbie" posts from a few weeks ago... At this rate, you'll be running the place by summer. Keep up the good work.
Instead of "will be," try "is running the place." I called out that scammer coinmovers in this thread (purchased utter trash from him in the past). While my language was harsh, it was richly deserved, and I certainly don't need to be told what to say and where to say it. Didn't say anything then, but I'm saying it now.
Now, anyone want to debate PNG?
Edited for formatting. >>
Um, do you mean this as a compliment? Or do you mean "is running the place" as I'm posting to much?? I'm confused, :sigh:
I'm really just trying to help out ..
Wear determines Uncirculated from Au. If a fingerprint took a coin out of the unc status.... There wouldn't be as many Uncirculated coins around because a ton of coins out there have fingerprints. Hope this helps.
Thank you, Mike (The seller of this auction) expressed almost the same thing you said, with a note of saying especially older dated coins. This is new to me today. If this is the case, I would place the coin MS64RB with spots. The reason for the return is the spots and marks on the coin, not the grade given by the grading company. Just wanted to clear that up so there is no confusion.
Thanks,
Ray
our mistakes. Anyone who says that they have not made
a lot of mistakes over the years, is either a lying sack or an idiot.
Glad you will be getting a refund. No harm no foul.
Camelot
<< <i>just don't put it near any solvent that might make the VDB fall off >>
It looks like the "S" already did fall off!
<< <i>Yeah stman, you are so hateful of prints sometimes you see them when there are none!
This photo displays the overall quality of this coin and show the spots well.
Sorry abou tthe glare, I was trying to get a different angle[/img]
This photo goes along with the next photo, I added an arrow to show the location of the finger print. Because I opened the photo in an editing program I wanted to show you a before pic that was not touched up.
The ONLY thing that was touched up was an arrow added to point at the finger print in question.
This photo was an attempt to get a close up of the finger print. Above and to the left of Lincolns head, you can see ribbs that appear to be finger print marks. PCGS will correct or conferm this.
Listen Gang, Mike is doing everything to make this right. He is in the business of selling coins, when I said I wanted to return, he never gave me any lip, and has actually already refunded my money. Also he was willing to pay to have PCGS grade it. I chose to cover that myself. As I stated Mike is in the business of selling coins, his partner goes out and buys all the stock, his wife takes the pictures. If anything, this could be chalked up as miss communication between the Purchaser (His partner buying the ACG) the photo taker (His wife) and his listing (Mike himself listing the coin), the more people involved the more chance for error, it's just a chance that most businesses take. I believe Mikes actions warrent the Innocent until proven guilty verdict as thus far he has conducted himself as a professional.
Mike and I would like you to continue to follow this coin in it's venture to PCGS over the next few weeks. We both hope this works out in the end. Mike being in a business can not legally state his opinion on ACG, but you all know the deal with them and I think we are all in the same boat with our opinions. The slab is not what I am worried about, what I am worried about is the reputation of possible one of the better sellers I have dealt with, Mike has been VERY good with the communications process and is going above and beyond the call as a seller. As stated, he could have said, SORRY, third party coin and you did not ask for a return policy before you bid, so tough luck. On the contrary, I believe Mike made the BEST decision and continues to do so with each E-mail. Surly you all understand I am holding up his money and stock to send it to PCGS.
Well, I don't want to beat a dead horse here so I'm going to check out for awhile (I'm going on the road for the weekend and I'm not even packed yet
Thanks,
Ray
Edited to add:
These are the original pictures I went by when making the purchase.
e-mail me here
WINNER:
POTD 8-30-05 (awarded by dthigpen)
POTD 9-8-05 (awarded by gsaguy)
GSAGUY Slam 12-10-04
If you are so cautious with your money, why are you buying coins with poor photos in an ACG slab and not even bothering to check the return policy before you buy.
You should be grateful for the slack he cut you on this.
As for playing the "veteran" card... that is great when you are applying for a job, but when you are dealing with a business transaction? What difference does that make to him? It is an appeal to sympathy-- a logical fallacy.
Forgive me if this sounds a little harsh, but you do not deserve any sympathy for this transaction.
If you are so cautious with your money, why are you buying coins with poor photos in an ACG slab and not even bothering to check the return policy before you buy.
You should be grateful for the slack he cut you on this.
As for playing the "veteran" card... that is great when you are applying for a job, but when you are dealing with a business transaction? What difference does that make to him? It is an appeal to sympathy-- a logical fallacy.
Forgive me if this sounds a little harsh, but you do not deserve any sympathy for this transaction."
Here we go, there is always someone in the crowd, huh gang? OK, let's see, the question is: Should I entertain this?
Alright here goes.
"If you are so cautious with your money, why are you buying coins with poor photos in an ACG slab and not even bothering to check the return policy before you buy.'
If you will notice, with the photos above and the link to the auction you will see a half way decent photo and a description that says the coin is in great condition. Add to this, a reputable dealer with a great deal of Positive feedbacks. This is how I came to purchase without asking about a return policy. Maybe I'm wrong here, maybe I should treat the world as guilty until proven innocent. I try to treat others as I would like to be treated, I try to trust others, I try to give others the benefit of doubt before I convict them. Here I had half way decent pictures, I had a good description, I had a reputable seller with many positive feedbacks...What I had is all the reason in the word to trust this seller...Why then would I treat him as a bad person, why would I not give him the benefit of doubt, why would I not assume he is being honest. Naive you say? Maybe, maybe I am a little trusting. You know, even if this seller did come back and say sorry, third party graded coins are sold as is, and you should have asked first, I would have let it go. I even would have refrained from giving him a negative feedback because as you said, I should have asked about the return policy before I bid, but I chose not to so why would I punish the seller? I asked, Mike found a solution, either way would have been good enough for me, I've learned that something like that would just be a lesson. No sense in getting upset about it.
You should be grateful for the slack he cut you on this.
I am grateful, I have stated it here, I have stated it in an E-mail to him. I believe everyone here understands I am grateful. I'm not sure why you require me to say it again, but for you. Mike I am grateful for the slack you have given me with this transaction. I am grateful for your mature decisions, for your great communications, and for you understanding my situation.
That should cover it.
As for playing the "veteran" card... that is great when you are applying for a job, but when you are dealing with a business transaction? What difference does that make to him? It is an appeal to sympathy-- a logical fallacy.
This is almost funny, I'm not sure you read the whole thread. Feel free to break here and read the entire thread. Here I'll put a break in my response so you can find your spot when you come back.
OK, as you will see 1) Mike brought up the topic of money and his situation, 2) I responded with money and my situation 3) Not one ounce of it is a lie 4) I do not use my life as a "Veteran Card" if that is how you took it, I assure you that is not how I meant it. I merely described my situation in relation to his, it seemed to me, that he (The seller) did not understand that a mere 100 dollar coin could be of significance to someone else, his sarcasm (As stated by another forum member) displayed to me that he thought like this, I merely cleared up, that in my situation, I am not made of money. That is the difference it makes to him.
Allow me to add a small observation of my own, since were in the practice of expressing our opinions or as some would call, "lashing out". You being in Turkey tells me one of two things. You are either in the service or you are a military "Brat" I believe the term is, meaning one of your parents is in the military and they carry you around the world when they PCS. What I am sure of, in either situation is you have a problem with the military and when you saw me mention that I was in the service, you chose to "lash out" at me. I could be wrong about you being in the service or related to it but my accusations about your attitude I believe are right on, however, given your first post, I know you will respond with the contrary.
In the future feel free to exercise your right to PM a forum member if you have a problem with them. Otherwise, everyone here on the forum will see that you are lashing out as a child would when he was not allowed to get a piece of candy at the corner store. Try to treat others as you would like to be treated. I understand at times it is hard, believe me, I have had my trying days, but learn from your actions and become a better person. There are many great people here on this forum that I am sure will offer guidance when needed, I even offer a hand whenever needed. Please PM me when you feel you need to lash out at someone here and lets talk it over, maybe there is two sides to every story and you at the time can only see one. I will try to help you see both sides.
In conclusion, welcome to the forum, the best place on the internet.
Sorry one last thing, "Forgive me if this sounds a little harsh, but you do not deserve any sympathy for this transaction"
First of all, you are entitled to your opinion, that is your right so no need to ask for forgiveness. Second, I did not ask for your sympathy, nor did I ask for anyone’s sympathy. However, your need to express yourself tells me that you wanted to express sympathy for me. And that my friend is a "Logical Fallacy"
What ever happened to the joy of coin collecting. It would seem that many of us bring our daily troubles and exasperations here instead of finding this a place to share in a mutual interest. Honestly maybe PCGS should darken this site for a week to give us all a chance to rethink why we come here, myself included.