Grade this 1878 Morgan - Grade Has been posted

Wolf359

The "trick" was in the luster. Notice how the obverse photo is darker than the reverse. The obverse luster is below average,
as the coin has probably been overdipped.

As far as being a proof versus business strike, there are some die cracks on the reverse near UNITED, making this coin
a doubtful proof. What makes the die cracks interesting is that I can't find these die cracks on any other VAM 14.3....even
ones marked Late Die State.

I did however, take a shot with PCGS asking them to cross the coin as a Proof (a dealer I spoke to also thought it might be a proof coin).
PCGS waffled a bit, then returned the coin as "cleaned". It's not cleaned, but I think that PCGS uses "cleaned"
when they aren't 100% sure. Either way, I think it's a pretty cool coin and a nice VAM.

K6AZ

Jack, that appears to be a high grade coin.

Do you realize that your post is nearly 4mb? This took several minutes on my 128k ISDN connection, and I don't even want to think about how long it would be for someone on a dialup.

Please, limit your images to 600x600 for each side, and use some compression.

K6AZ

You sneaky devil you, you replaced the images!

GoldCoinLover

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I'm no expert but I'd guess AU to MS-64

K6AZ

Also, those coins are shot at such an angle that a lot of marks are probably hidden. How about some straight on shots?

theRiddler

"A image for the devil to ponder,
he wouldn't know a high grade Morgan, he would just sit and wonder."

theRiddler

Nice Morgan.

Wolf359

Eric, yes I replaced the images. I must be sleepy!

No marks are hidden. Actually the photo showed 2 marks on the eagle, which...in my horror I never noticed.
I just grabbed the coin...and they're not on the coin. Whew.

BigAl

wow! am i correct in assuming that's a proof 8tf?

K6AZ

Those shots are still at an angle Jack, and I wouldn't even try to guess the grade on those images. It is a high grade coin, but unless I can see them dead straight on with a little more brightness, I can't give you an honest evaluation.

Coppernicus

Image size warning! At work I'm on a T1 line, at home it's (ugh) dial-up!! Cable soon on the way. I love the threads with pics at work but here at home, I have to pass most of them by. I thought there was a size limit on the pics in posts. True?

Mike

Wolf359

No angle photos...here:

Obverse

Reverse

K6AZ

OK, I see it is already in a holder. MS65, possible 66.

SarasotaFrank

many folks know these better than I, however, even I can see that is a whale of a coin. 66 wouldn't surprise me in the least.

ksteelheader

I would easily guess MS66 on that one....Ken

cosmicdebris

I too will go MS66

Wolf359

ttt

mgoodm3

That's a hell of a strike. maybe 67

Stuart

GoldCoinLover: Looks like an MS-65 (shot 66) to me, and it's a very nice 1878-8TF Morgan! Thanks for sharing with us!

Wolf359

Some excellent guesses. However, there's one thing that everyone has missed (HINT, HINT, HINT). It's all in the photos, take another look.

I'll give you folks another shot and post the grade later tonight.

DorkGirl

Knowing your taste in coins, I'd say that this is a VAM "double-dingle berries" or something similar. The berries sure look strange, and by the way, she's beautiful!!

mgoodm3

The N, E, and D one one dollar lower left serifs look funny ?DDR? Just making a randon guess. I don't know much about the vagaries of Morgans.

davewang202

VAM 14.3 dies were used for proof strikes as well as MS strikes. The coin doesn't look like it's a proof, but then again, there doesn't seem to be too many high grade VAM 14.3 business strikes either.

I'll just have a crazy and wild guess... PCGS Proof 63.

Kriek

1878-P 8TF VAM 14.3 PCGS PR62

coinkat

Well it does not appear to be VAM44. The scan is still dark for me.

dizzlecc

ms 65 with a ddr.

Bothuwui

I'm not a variety expert, but the reverse looks a whole lot different then my 1878. STATES on the reverse has significant indentations in the bottom of the T's whereas mine are straight. The top arrow that the eagle is holding has an arrowhead that bends upward, whereas mine is straight (arrowhead, not the feathers). The eagle's feathers extend farther down the left leg, showing less of the leg. Many other things look a little off as well. Exactly what reverse is this? As far as the grade goes, It looks a whole lot better than the MS 65's I have. If it is not a proof, I'll say MS66. Just a little noise to the right of the eagle is about the only major blemish.

Bothuwui

The eagle's head is not rounded either. The wreath has a different number of leaves in many of its bunches. The berries in the wreath are positioned differently. Is it a pattern, or is what I'm describing what the 8TF Rev looks like?

Stuart

Some of the leaves are missing (or are very weakly struck) on the inside portion of the wreath on the reverse of the coin around 3:00 to 4:00 near the letters "RICA" in America.

I would say that the strike appears to be more like an 1878-S mint coin, but it does have the 8TF reverse so it's got to be a Philly mint issue.

The strike does not appear to be strong enough for it to be a proof coin.

Bothuwui

Well, I rescind my previous posts. Looks like everything I described is typical for an 8TF reverse. I didn't realize there were that many differences! I'm going to have to find one now.

Wolf359

Hint #2

Well it is a VAM 14.3 used for both Proof and Business Strikes.

Here's a Proof 14.3, sold on Heritage Auctions.

Heritage 8TF Proof


The hint though involves grading....I'm not trying to trick anyone with VAMs or anything. Did someone say ...dark?...

Stuart

The coin still looks like an MS-65 1878 8TF to me. It appears to be a business strike and I still don't see anything unusual that would affect the grade.

I suppose that we are missing something based on your hints... I give up.

Stuart

Is you "dark" hint implying some type of off-metal (non-silver) planchet, i.e either a trial striking for this first year of issue, or some type of counterfeit striking ??

Crazy4Coins

Something doesn't look right on the cap to the right of leaves.Maybe it just the lighting or angle of photo.
Kind of looks like there has been a repair or something.It seems to be missing some of the detail on the cap.

My guess.... MS66 repaired.... but I know very little about Morgans. It is a great looking coin.

Randy

coinkat

I just thought the picture looked alittle dark... great hints... where is MrEureka when you need him?

Wolf359

ttt

K6AZ

This coin appears to be a 65, and I saw the initial huge images you posted. Cleaned can be more than just hairlines, and with the luster you mention, sounds like it could be overdipped. I'm not surprised though, SEGS will not say cleaned on the holder unless there are obvious hairlines.