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my first pcgs coin - somewhat disappointed

Well, I'm a young beginning collector (other than some old whitman folders from when I was a kid) and I decided I'd start with getting all the washington quarters from my birthdate (1982) forward in PR69DCAM condition. I figured this would be a reasonable and affordable way to start a collection. I like PCGS holders and they seemed to be the most reputable graders out there so I purchased my first coin off ebay. I know I should buy the coin and not the holder, but I decided to trust PCGS. Besides, Ebay coins are cheap as I'm not rolling in dough. Anyways, I was disappointed with my first coin when I excitedly recieved it in the mail (It's like recieving treasure I swear). It looks nice, but is less than what I expected. Just thought I'd post here to gather some of your oppinions. Should I continue buying PCGS coings on Ebay? Is this normal grading? Here are some pics and explanations of whats wrong with the coin. I know this is just a $10 coin guys, but it's important for me to get to know these grading companies' criteria before I trust them to slab my future registry collection of the entire Washington series (in my dreams). The pictures were really good, but I had to shrink them significantly to meet size requirements for the forum.

Key points:

1, 2 - Just normal specks on the cameo, no problems here for the grade
3 - Small Mark, but I think it's on the holder (Shouldn't better care be taken to not have imperfections on the holder)
4 - Tiny black speck, some tiny piece of whatever seems to have found a resting place on the mirrored proof surface.
This is the mark I'm most worried about because I can tell under close inspection that it is indeed on the coin from the small halo that has formed around it on the coin surface.

I have provided an enlarged view of points 3 and 4

5 - What looks to be dings on the perimeter of the coin (almost like someone pushed the coin into the holder with a metal instrument), but again could just be the holder
6 - Not very obvious in the pic, but this is the most visually distracting mark on the coin. It's pretty big and you don't need to look close to see it. I'm hoping it's just a mark on the inside of the holder as this would drastically lower the coins grade in my opinon.
7 - A tiny piece of black lint in the holder (What care is PCGS taking if this stuff is getting inside the holder somehow?)

Comments

  • Wolf359Wolf359 Posts: 7,656 ✭✭✭
    Holders are very frequently scratched up in my experience. You should get a loupe or something to determine where the mark is. From the photos, I can't tell either.
  • itsnotjustmeitsnotjustme Posts: 8,777 ✭✭✭
    I think I've seen #5 and it is just a bit of the rubber gasket that holds the coin pushed up. Tough to judge from the photo if any of the ones on the coin should push it down--need to leave room for a 70 to be better I guess.
    Give Blood (Red Bags) & Platelets (Yellow Bags)!
  • TTJ,Welcome to the forums. image
    I just started buying slabs about three weeks ago,due to all the slab talk on this forum.
    From what I gather PCGS is no,1 NGC is 2,and ANACS is 3.I've won 7 PCGS slabs off the bay for under what it takes to grade them.This seems to be much cheaper than having them graded yourself,plus you don't have to wait 3 months.Also have 2 ANACS on the way.I want to get a few of each of the top three slabbers to decide for myself which'ens I prefer.So far its PCGS.
    Nice Washington.
  • TTJ,
    Don't be discouraged by that submission result. My first sub came back as body-bagged - no grade.
    I realize it's important to you, but dont let it get you down. Keep that coin for awhile and use it to guage other examples against.
    If you're going to purchase from ebay (I refer to it as PayBay), try to buy from sellers who at least give a return policy. This way when you compare your purchases against your "guage", you can quickly determine if it's a keeper or not. As well, don't hesitate to email sellers,... ask for high res images. Many post crappy scans or fuzzy digipics that look like garbage. If they don't out right offer a return policy, ask them for it via email before bidding, and ask them for hi-res images you can see.
    Check out the eBay auction links that folks post here often. It will help you identify the differences of what's rea,l and what's real crap. These folks are serious collectors and know what they're looking at, and reading the threads in these forums have helped me tremendously.
    Lucy gave me a very similar tip on Franklin examples, and it's paid off extremely well. I may know about metals and their reactions, but these folks know coins! I can honestly say, you can trust the senior members here.

    Finally, welcome! I'm new here too, but these folks are great and will answer your questions straight up. Well,... most of them anyway,.. there are a few cranky, cantancourous, stubourn, smartass, over opinionated, political, venting, and sometimes vague answers, but rest assured, I don't fit any of the above image

    Craig
    The Rede we live by: If it harms none, do what you will.
    image
  • prooflikeprooflike Posts: 3,879 ✭✭
    Possibly, just possibly, if it was perfect, it would be in a 70 holder.

    image
  • RampageRampage Posts: 9,447 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think the coin looks fine for a 69 holder. At $10.00, you have a good buy.

    Welcome to the message forums.
  • haletjhaletj Posts: 2,192
    Hi!
    I'm like you and have been quite dissappointed with the quality of pcgs modern coins. I've been used to collecting early Lincoln Cents and Indian Cents and something like a pcgs ms65 is a gorgeous coin. Only since Jan I've been trying to improve my raw sets of modern coins with some pcgs ms66's and ms67's, and I was expecting superb quailty for such high grades but for the most part haven't got that. I guess the newer coins are actually graded on a very different scale (very unfortunately). Anyway, after buying a bunch, I now know what is the best I can hope for for whatever grade, and I try to just buy or keep ones that really are that nice, and avoid or return all the others (I've returned tons which does get annoying, but makes you better about choosing what to bid on or buy off ebay). Anyway, good luck!
  • haletjhaletj Posts: 2,192
    Actually, some more of my thoughts about what I said... Who would ever buy a PR68DCAM 82-s quarter when a PR69DCAM already costs barely the slabbing fee? No one of course, so no one would bother to submit 68's to pcgs, but what if they graded these a lot more leniently? Hmm... that would allow a lot more coins to make the 69 grade, and a lot more coins to be graded, and a lot more money for the grading company. Yes, I think your coin is typical for the grade and yes you should be disappointed (I spelled it right this time) with its quality. Like what I said before, there probably are high end 69's that really only have 1 minute flaw, and you should try to stick to them, but of course that is hard to do or even next to impossible buying from pictures on ebay. Maybe try to find a reputable dealer who weeds out bad ones, or if you're interested in the coins themselves, and not the registry then don't be afraid of buying these raw or in original proof sets (sight seen, not ebay). You can probably find ones just as nice for even less money (who knows maybe you'll come across a nice enough one that'd be worth submitting for a 70!).
  • Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,274 ✭✭✭
    "Shouldn't better care be taken to not have imperfections on the holder"

    I've never seen a holder that wasn't scratched, this includes coins which PCGS has slabbed for me.
    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
  • Welcome to the forums!

    The holder protects the coin. They almost always get a scratch or two or ten. These can be polished out.

    Some of what you see may be imperfections as produced by the mint (1 + 2, maybe others). If they are that wouldn't hurt the grade much but would prevent the coin from being a 70. However #4 sounds like some dirt or something. If that grows into a larger spot the coin might become a 68 or less. From my point of view that coin looks OK for the grade but is not a high end 69.

    It seems you are discriminating and have a good eye for detail. I believe you could find better coins than this but you would have to examine them in person. If you were able to go to a coin show you might be able to find betters coin that weren't graded for less money.

    There are better coin available on eBay but you would have to be able to return the ones you don't like and that takes time and money - it might not be worth returning $10 coins. If you continue to buy coins from eBay I would recommend sticking with PCGS and NGC certified coins. It seems to me that other companies have much lower standards.
  • PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭
    Buying pcgs graded coins on eBay is safer for needing to return than buying raw coins on eBay but you still need to look at the coin so either good pictures or a return offer or both is the best way to go.
  • Dennis88Dennis88 Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭
    looks like a nice 69.

    Dennis
  • MarkMark Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Welcome. And I, too, am disturbed when I see a spot of something on the coin's surface because I know that the spot might grow to become an eyesore. You could send the coin back to PCGS and ask them to remove the particle, but I don't know if they would do it, plus it would be 1) expensive, and 2) dangerous because you might wind up with 2 (or more) new particles in the new slab and/or the all-time classic, a big fat fingerprint.

    I doubt you'll find many sellers on eBay with pictures detailed enough to pick out the spots. Plus I doubt you'll find many non-eBay mail sellers willing to look over their (relatrively inexpensive) PR69 quarters close enough to determine if there are spots that you won't like. As a result, I agree with Carl--I think if it's possible for you to attend a show, you'll be able to buy coins that you truly enjoy. You might well pay more than $10 per coin, but you'll get coins you like and you probably will enjoy the process of looking through a bunch of PR69s and then selecting the high-end ones.

    Mark
    Mark


  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,075 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PR stands for proof not for perfect as you found out. Keep the coin but plan on looking for a nicer example. Thats what I would do and when you find one dump this one.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • NoGvmntNoGvmnt Posts: 1,126
    I can only comment on your #4 (tiny black speck). I have a 1961 or 62 DCAM Proof Dime laying around here somewhere that has what appears to be the same problem. I think itis a particle of the media that the Mint uses to blast the frost finish on the devices of the coin.

    I chose to leave the particle attached to the coin considering that if I picked it off there would be an even more unsightly pit in the coin.

    As far as the "lint", sh*it happens. I suggest if you are going to be THAT picky (and there is nothing wrong with being picky) about your coins, you attend coin shows where you can view the particular coin in person before plunking your cash down. Just take a list of Ebay completed auction prices with you for whatever coins you intend to seek and try to buy near those prices.

    Jim
  • Looks ok to me. I think your being a little hard on it...but I'm no Washington expert. And welcome!
    Bill
  • Thanks for the feedback guys and for the welcome to the forum. I have 8 more PR69DCAM Washingtons coming in the mail. They should probably give me a much better idea of what to expect in general with PCGS's grading of proof Washingtons. I'm really not as picky about top end coin condition as I may have seemed. I don't expect a perfect coin unless it's graded a 70. However, with as much I've heard about PSGS being so damn tough with their grades, I kind of expected PR69 to be perfect to the naked eye and only having tiny defects under extreme scrutiny. On the other hand, finding out that PCGS can be somewhat lenient, I'm encouraged to break open some mint sets from when I was a kid and submit them. Many of the coins look somewhat sad for "mint" sets (especially the Kennedys) but I have some 80's lincolns that I'd swear were an easy MS69, so if I could get a few MS68 graded coins it would make it worth breaking the sets.
  • If you want quality Washington quarters go to a show near you if possible. You can cherry pick the premium material and don't be concerned with PCGS holders. Sometimes the best coins are infact in PCGS holders and sometimes they are not. Buy the coin you like.
  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭
    i didn't read any of the followup posts because i assume most of them just parrot the "buy plastic" adage (i could be wrong).

    i just want to say this: if your planing to spend 10 bucks per coin, you'd be a fool to buy slabs off ebay, & slabs period! you'd be paying $9 for the plastic & $1 for the coin - that would be w/ free postage! take your 10 bucks & go to a coin show & buy TEN proof washington quarters raw.

    if you don't have access to a coin show, & insist on buying ebay, for 10 bucks a pop, still, buy RAW coins ONLY. you'll get way more bang for the buck.

    K S
  • A good buy at 10 bucks, enjoy the holder....

    Welcome

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