Sacagawea Future??? Does any one know?
nemesis93457
Posts: 376
Just wondering if anyone can speculate on the sacagawea future. Are they going to be included in this years Mint and proof sets? When do you suppose the series might end?
Wish I knew? Thanks, Walt
Wish I knew? Thanks, Walt
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Many people (not collectors) think that they have already stopped making them since they only see Sacs from 2000 in their change. The machines at the post offices give change back using both Sacs and SBAs.
Sacs issued from 2001 - 2003 were not released into circulation by the US Mint. They sold them to collectors.
The US Mint has a coin production page that I'd invite you to visit. Although they do not have the figures posted for 2000 and 2001 (I have sent them an email asing for this information), you can see only a slight dip in production between 2002 and 2003 (only about 1 million fewer produced.
Will the mint keep making them? Will they stop making them? I don't know. If they keep making them, I hope that they can figure out how to do a better job at it. (Ping at the quality of 2003 coins in general.)
Another thing that I noticed is that they are making more Sacagawea Dollars than they are Kennedy Halves...
Matt
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The more they transfer, the lower the national deficit.............
the more they make, the more the dollar gets devalued...............
sheesh.. this gets confusing
3 "DAMMIT BOYS"
4 "YOU SUCKS"
Numerous POTD (But NONE officially recognized)
Seated Halves are my specialty !
Seated Half set by date/mm COMPLETE !
Seated Half set by WB# - 289 down / 31 to go !!!!!
(1) "Smoebody smack him" from CornCobWipe !
IN MEMORY OF THE CUOF
<< <i>They need them for Atlantic City and Las Vegas. >>
the Casinos use their own big dollar tokens.........
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
it will be many years until we have a usable dollar coin, if ever.
It's ironic that if we had the coin and the government tried to force the paper dollar on us
there would be a revolution. Imagine if they started issuing paper money for all circulating
issues including the cent.
No money can possibly circulate in this country unless the banks distribute it and apparently
the banks have no intention of distributing dollar coins until they are forced.
<< <i>It's ironic that if we had the coin and the government tried to force the paper dollar on us
there would be a revolution >>
There was. 1862 when the first "legal tenders" were issued they were VERY unpopular and traded at a discount to coin. (Something that cost $1.00 in coin might cost $1.10 to $1.20 if you were using paper money. Could you imagine going to the store today and having to pay different prices depending on whether you were paying in cents, clad, golden dollars, or paper? Of course we often do pay different amounts depending on whether we use cash or plastic so maybe it hasn't changed that much.)
And Matthew, the 2001 dollars were made for circulation, not just for sale to collectors. Frankly as long as they can keep making them and selling them to collectors for a premium over face value I would think we will see them continue.
I would also expect to continue seeing them in mint and proof sets too. that keeps the price up and results in higher profits for the mint as well.
2004 Production:
January 2004
1 C 5 C 10 C 25 C 50 C $1 GT
Denver 254,800,000 28,080,000 99,000,000 145,200,000 2,900,000 0 529,980,000
Philly 298,800,000 19,920,000 118,500,000 119,400,000 2,900,000 0 559,520,000
Total: 553,600,000 48,000,000 217,500,000 264,600,000 5,800,000 0 1,089,500,000
GD - Sacagawea / Golden Dollar
*Preliminary production figures only.
So far, $1 is at zero
Nickel production is low, so far
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
Lightside: I wouldn't let the lack of production so far this year send any signals one way or the other. Although............... The 2003 Sacagaweas were available Feb 3rd, 2003... Hmmmmm... Let's see... April 29th in 2002... Feb 21st in 2001... Jan 27th in 2000...
I didn't see any pattern so I just called the Mint. The 2004 Sacagawea Dollars are due to be available Feb 18th, 2004...
Matt
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They are used more widely in countries other then the good ol U.S. of A. There is 1 S. American country that uses them happily.
Second, they sold quite a bit of them to us collectors and made a ton of money on the extra charges. What is it that they charge, $35.00 for 2 rolls of $10.00 P & D mints...I forget and don't care to go to the Mint website to find out.
Third, the Federal Reserve has to have a surplus of 1 dollar coins. They were in such a hurry to start producing these coins that they had to bring back the S.B.A. dollar coin for the year of 1999.
Forth, they use them in all of those stamp machines across the nation. This one not really being a good reason, but is a reason.
And last, I believe that they will still make them because they don't want to let us collectors down and that the Government would look stupid if this program failed, especially since it is a "Gold" colored coin.
Just a couple of thoughts,
Paul B. Gunsallus
Later, Paul.
2001 Sac's circulate. I got 4 rolls of 'em from the bank ladies.
<< <i>2001 Sac's circulate. I got 4 rolls of 'em from the bank ladies. >>
Quick! Put 'em on ebay!
2001 rolls are brining a premium. I wonder how 2001 rolls found their way to a bank?
A website says over 100,000,000 were minted in 2001, so I don't know why it would be a big deal.
<< <i>Quick! Put 'em on ebay!
2001 rolls are brining a premium. I wonder how 2001 rolls found their way to a bank? >>
Oh, geez, you gotta be kidding me. $100 for $25 face ... and reserve not met? What was the guy hoping for?
In any case, I think the dollar coin is firmly embedded in our coinage, albeit as a niche instrument and not mainstream. My prediction is that the mint will continue to make them in small quantities for "collectors", with occasional blips as demand warrants.
<< <i>Oh, geez, you gotta be kidding me. $100 for $25 face ... and >>
Is it any different than the Mint selling them at $35 for a $25 roll?
As long as the Mint continues to have enough fools to pay a premium for them, why quit making them?
And, as someone already said, Ecuador (or is it Colombia, or both?) uses American money and they like the Sacs down there.
Another good idea that never flew - converting the US to metric. Whatever happened to that one?
He confirmed the Feb 18th release date for this year's Sacs.
I asked if the Sac would meet the same fate as the SBA. He said that they would continue to be minted at these levels except for when they needed higher levels to restock the supply.
We discussed the idea of the USA moving to a coin only dollar. He said that the Sacagawea was designed to be a "dual circulating issue" (both paper and coin). I asked if he was aware of any efforts currently on Capitol Hill at this time, he stated that this effort usually goes in cycles and that there weren't any at present that he was aware of.
We spent a moment discussing other countries that had moved from paper to coins, the reluctance and eventual conversion of the masses...
I wish that I would have known that he was going to return my call so that I could have had a small list of 'good' questions for him, but who would have known that the third time was the charm (third message left during the past 12 months, first call back).
-----
About this country going to the Metric System, I have seen two new roads recently that are marked in kilometers only (no mile markers).
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I really hate to see this one go. I can only hope that it does hit the moon and that the winner loves it as much as I do/did.
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I just wish I could get the rolls of the current years Sacs from my bank.
-Khayse
The Ludlow Brilliant Collection (1938-64)
“I want you to remember that no * ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb * die for his country”
slightly contrived though they do look and work better than might have been predicted.
They have triggered at least a minor revolution in the hobby but coins are too important
to use for purposes other than commerce and a statement of a nation's ideals and aspir-
ations. Changing the designs on all the coins frequently may be an effective tool to boost
the profits of the mint but it is not necessarily good for the long term health of the hobby.
Amen! Maybe they should force the banks to take so many when they order $1 bills, like they did with the Eagles from the mint awhile back.
What I would like to know is the reason for not circulating them. Is it 1.) because they want to make the premium at the mint website. 2.) they are trying to use up the 2000's first (and then the 2002's??) - and/or both/neither???
Altho I always look at the Sacs on the website, and would like to have them - I have so far, refused to pay that premium. What a rip off! That comes to about $1.65 or so for a $1 coin - isn't that called illegal 'price gouging'? Is that even near what a dollar is worth these days?
<< <i>No money can possibly circulate in this country unless the banks distribute it and apparently
Amen! Maybe they should force the banks to take so many when they order $1 bills, like they did with the Eagles from the mint awhile back >>
Who pays for the shipping? That is something that many collectors who want to get large quantities of coin from banks to search don't seem to understand. Handling coins is a money losing proposition for banks. Any time they have to transport the coins, either because they ordered them or if they are shipping surplus back, they have to pay a shipping fee. So ideally a bank wants to try and survive with just the change that comes in over the counter and they keep a supply on hand that fairly closely matches what their customers actually need.
<< <i>What I would like to know is the reason for not circulating them. Is it 1.) because they want to make the premium at the mint website. 2.) they are trying to use up the 2000's first (and then the 2002's??) - and/or both/neither??? >>
Actually they would really prefer that they would circulate. If they did they could produce a much larger number of coins for circulation and they would make more money from the seniorage on that than they would from the sales of three million coins to collectors. (Collector sales of three million coins at around $1.40 profit per coin = 4.2 million dollars. 60 million dollars per year for circulation at a seniorage profit of 80 cents per coin = 48 million dollars. The 60 million coins per year is based on the 5 million coin per month drawdown rate that the stockpile of SBA had in 1997 - 1999. Profit per coin was based on a cost of production estimate of 20 cents per coin. Collector sales coins cost about $1.60, less 20 cent cost equals a $1.40 profit per coin.)
and it would be substantially higher in cases where the increased volume of dollar coin
necessitated a second delivery. This would be offset by lower counting costs. The savings
are so substantial in production costs that these costs are simply dwarfed. It should not
be difficult to get these coins in circulation even if the banks are forced to absorb these
costs. Surely we're talking about a less than one hundreth of a cent per transaction in
most cases.
I just received a telephone callback from the Mint about this year's Sacagawea Dollars. She hopes to have a new release date for the bags and rolls next week.
I indicated to her that there are a lot of collectors interested in not only the release date but the production quality of these coins. She said that they have been receiving a large number of calls about them. I told her that I'm a member of a large collector's group (these boards, but not mentioned by name) with membership numbering over 12,000. I explained to her that we have a great interest (so, I may have lied, but oh well...) in knowing what's going on. I told her that since I'm in the local area (Washington DC Metro area) that I've taken the lead in contacting them. I tried to impress upon her that keeping me up to date on their status would most likely lower the number of calls that they were receiving.
Ok, so I may have stretched the truth to the Mint, but I'm trying to get answers for you.
Matt
My Coin Website
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Instead of posting the same information about this in two different threads, I'm going to continue to make updates to the "2004 Sacagawea" thread only.
Anyone subscribed to this thread, please subscribe to the other thread to be notified of additional updates.
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<< <i>If the government doesn't force these into circulation next year after the election then
it will be many years until we have a usable dollar coin, if ever.
Imagine if they started issuing paper money for all circulating
issues including the cent.
<< <i>
Interestingly enough, we have had paper "cents" in the past. The Fractional currency issued during the civil war lasted into the 1880's and is one of the many areas of paper money collecting. They were much smaller than normal sized bills, and came some series featured denominations including 3 cents, 5 cents, 10 cents, 25 cents, 50 cents, and even 15 cents. So there was paper circulating at below a dollar at one time.....
al h.
<< <i>large dollar coins have never really been very popular with the American public, at least from the Morgan Dollar on. the quarter is the workhorse today. as strange as it seems, people would rather carry and use four quarters instead of one dollar coin.
al h.
People have not really been given the option since banks refuse to distribute the coin.
Certainly even ifthey had the option many would prefer the four quarters since many
vending machines are not equipped to handle the dollar coins.
coinfool
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