Grades are in: Set Registry Special Results

minibeers

Check out the results of my latest submission. Overall, I'm happy. I think PSA is biased towards Topps 1986 Baseball. I know that year sucks but I sent in the best of the BEST. One of the 86 Roses was an SGC 9 I cracked. It is SO much better than the other one. Round and round she goes...
Submission # 551728 Zip Code: 37932
cheers,
minibeers
edited to strip HTML out of post

boggs301012

Fairly good invoice those 86 's are brutal. On my next order I am going to send in a few superstar cards. Just to see if I can pick a 9 from the 86's.

I am very jealous of the turn around time. I have 2 orders in one the 6 card freebie......"recieved the 30th " And my regular submission "recieved the 22nd". I though the 6 card would take a few days.


James

Boopotts

I think this submission does a great job of highlighting a major problem that PSA is going to eventually have to deal with; i.e., they are going to have to do something to address the fact that the overwhelming majority of their customers cannot differentiate between an 8 and a 9, or a 9 and a 10, often enough to make their submissions profitable.

Now don't get me wrong-- I'm not bashing you. In fact, your submission looks a lot like many of mine. And if you're satisfied with the grades, then fantastic-- I'm glad you feel like you got what you paid for. But the fact is that none of the post-1980 cards on your submission can be sold for a price that will recoup the grading fees (with the possible exception of the '87 Bonds) , much less sold for a meaningful profit. And yet, I'm sure you scrutinized your cards, and submitted only those that you thought had an excellent chance of receiving a very high grade. So what gives? Is it just that so few of us can grade a card as accurately as the guys as PSA? Well, I doubt this. I doubt it very much. Which leaves us with two possibilities: a) the grading system, while not exactly fraudulent, is so subjective, or the differences between the grades so minute, that there's really no sense in ever trying to understand it, or b) that the graders at PSA look for things that the rest of us either don't see, or tend to regard as inconsequential.

If 'a' is correct, then that's the end of the story. PSA will continue to be viable in the vintage card market, and will ultimately cease to be relevant in the modern markets, since modern collectors typically aren't worried if the card is trimmed, or restored, or counterfeit, etc. etc. However, if it's 'b', then PSA should do something-- like have a workshop-- at which members can learn to discern, with reasonable accuracy, which cards will land in a '10' holder, and which won't.

No system is perfect. I recognize that. But the one currently in place will eventually ruin PSA-- or at least marginalize it-- by virtue of the fact that so few cards printed after 1975 are worth getting graded IF the customer can't expect to have the card returned to him in the expected holder a vast majority of the time. PSA will never get all the good vintage stuff into the grading room, but it's fair to assume that the amount of high-end vintage will eventually dwindle, which means the future of PSA-- and I mean 10-20 years down the line-- is directly tied to it's ability to get our vast stores of 1985 Donruss through their front door.

In any event, something needs to be done. A couple months ago, I staged an experiment where I went through some of my old boxes and dug out those cards which I thought could grade high. I pulled about 300, then went over them with a fine tooth comb. I held them up to the light. I put 'em under magnification. Hell, I even scanned them at 900 dpi, and stared at them on my screen for about 5 minutes each. Finally, I picked out about 40 which by any reasonable measure would have to be considered flawless. 53-47 centering or better, not a single scratch, scuff or nicked corner, full gloss, beutifully registered-- these cards were outstanding. My results? about 13 10's, 5 8's and the rest 9's. Not bad, I guess, for a 'typical' submission, but IMO these grades were unacceptable, since I could now only hope to make maybe 150 bucks profit on the lot. When I figure in my time, I could do better flipping burgers.

Now I honestly don't know what I could have done differently to improve my grades. No idea at all. Which means, amongst other things, that I have a ton of cards here at the house which PSA will never make a dime off of-- that is, unless they choose to enlighten me as to what flaws the other 75% of my submission exhibited. It's just not worth my time, and it's probably not worth anybody else. Until PSA does something about this, they're going to eventually run into some real problems.

ctsoxfan

Excellent post, boopotts...I agree with you 100%. I can't tell you how many wax boxes and packs I bust, and screen only the best of the best cards, look at them under magnification and bright light, and still get back some 8's (which if it's modern, 8 usually means throw it out.) I don't have much spare time, so to come up with enough quality cards for a submission often takes me a long time, and then when you add in the cost of grading and shipping, it is often a losing effort.

mrc32

Boopotts- A great post!

I think the more likely scenario is your choice A. I think it is a little more subjective and less scientific than anyone would hope.

CreeperKat

<< <i>But the fact is that none of the post-1980 cards on your submission can be sold for a price that will recoup the grading fees (with the possible exception of the '87 Bonds) , much less sold for a meaningful profit. >>


This is the diference between a collector and a dealer. I'm sure there are a lot of people that submit cards to PSA as a hobbyist/collector and not a businessman/dealer. Take my results for example, (Invoice: 4084101 / Zip: 92845). The cards are primarily Angels players which there is probably no way that I could recoup my grading fees even at $5.00 per card (I drop off and pick up my cards at PSA). This is fine with me as I have no intentions of selling them unless I upgrade. If I try to sell the ones I upgraded on eBay with no luck, then I hold them for other Angels collectors or use them to interest others by giving them away. All in all, I am a collector who enjoys looking for gradeable cards, opening packs, and meeting other collectors. I'm sure there are many others that lurk these boards that are very much the same.

-Eric

P.S. The bottom three cards belong to a coworker who was interested in getting some of his favorite cards graded.

Buckwheat

Boopotts,

what you say is true---but from the other side of the coin, if people could submit cards and always get 9's and 10's, then lots more poeple would submit, and the price of 9's and 10's would drop so that it is not profitable to submit the cards at all.

If PSA were more lenient in grading, then all cards would be worth much less at their stated grade. In fact, the way to keep high grade cards valuable is to make sure that all cards meet the grade, and be very strict with the standards.

Modern cards will always be a problem, because the volume of high grade raw is so large. It is very difficult to add $6 plus time to a raw card, and be able to recoup your money. That is why all grading companies have a huge problem going forward. The amount of high grade Vintage material is limited, and the cost of grading raw modern material is higher than the added value, due to the huge supply.

minibeers

Boopotts, excellent reply. Thanks. I agree with you on everything and I think it is very subjective and PSA has a reputation to control so I'll go out to my friends and say, "PSA is so TOUGH on grading." At least that is one theory. I think a grading seminar is an AWESOME idea and I think the fact that you are thinking long term about PSA's viability as a company is very wise. You must be a business owner.

CreeperKat, you nailed it, too. I'm a collector and not a dealer. The fact my Steve Garvey's pulled 8s sucks, but I'll keep them. I'm thrilled my Kirk Gibson got a 9. It is all a crap shoot to me. I scored a 10 on a 77 Pete Rose I thought would only get an 8 a couple months ago. While I am a collector, I don't want my "investments" to depreciate so I try to park my money in good cards. For cards I truly just collect, I don't send them in for grading. In fact, if I see a vintage Dodger in a PSA 5 holder, I'll buy it knowing full well what I'm getting and then crack it out and put it in a screw down because I find mid grade cards more appealing that way. I would never do that with a high end card.

Overall, I'm having fun with this but wish I could have scored higher on the 80's stuff. At least my 77 Eck got a 9 and that is exactly what I thought it would get. I'll probably trade that one for some 77 Dodgers in 9s.

cheers,
minibeers

minibeers

Also, all the cards I submitted were pulled from packs by me or someone I trust. Why the heck would anyone trim a 77 Cubs Team card? I KNOW that sucker was not trimmed or cut down from the full sheet you could mail order and get back in the day.

Just more food for thought. To be clear, I think PSA is the best and I'm happy with their service. Once we get these wacky humans out of the process, then maybe we'll have some more accuracy around here.

cheers,
minibeers

Boopotts

Buckwheat-

As usual, a fantastic post. But, it's not about PSA becoming more lenient-- instead, it's about letting people know what exactly are the tangible differences that distinguish a 9 from a 10. Like I said, I'm sure I gave my cards much more thorough examination than the grader who received them. So what did he see that I didn't?

Also, it's possible that the price of 9's and 10's would drop. But so what? As long as submitting low-end modern isn't viable, then the price issue's irrelevant. I-- and most collectors who have some profit motive-- aren't going to submit our '86 Fleer baseball stuff anyway if things don't change, so we-- or I-- don't care what the prices are that are currently being realized, and how these current prices would relate to future prices. If we could submit, and get the cards back in the holders we expected, we would THEN worry about the prices. If prices dropped so much that it wasn't worth getting them graded, well, fine. That's just the market at work. But as things currently stand, this is all conjecture. And the fact remains that PSA's long term viability is directly tied to it's ability to get modern cards through the front door. If they can't do this, they'll just have to settle for what will ultimately become a niche market, catering to those who occasionally unearth a find of the rapidly dwindling supply of hi-end vintage.

The honeymoon, for PSA, will soon be over. So they need to rethink their grading policies, or at least rethink how they explain their grading policies to their customers. Because the system in place now, where no order-- no matter the quality of the cards-- will ever see more than 40% 10's, just isn't going to cut it. All of us here, I think, should be educated as to just distinguishes a 9 from a 10, so we can al make more informed decisions on what we choose to have graded. If PSA does this, then the floodgates will open. If they don't, these boards probably won't exist 10 years from now.

BTW, I always love your posts. You're obviously a critical thinker, and an asset to these boards. Please keep it up!

Boopotts

You're right, CreeperKat-- this is probably the difference between a collector and a dealer. But, PSA could realize a ton more submissions if they tried to educate both collectors and dealers as to the particularities of their grading system.

minibeers

I think the centering is my personal grading weakness. How do you measure? I'm still eyeballing it.