Mecca Cigarette Cards Question...Anyone?

RayBShotz · November 16, 2003 6:18AM

Didn't even see a registered set for these. Posted it here too because there are definitely folks in the know.
I picked up a couple of Mecca Cigarette cards at an antique show. Detail on the front of each pictures a track & field star in color with a white border with the persons name in small block text. I have Walter Bursch and Harold A. Wilson.
On the back is a brief bio with a recent historical on the athlete's recent achievements. At the bottom of the back is the best cards ID markings. Both say Mecca Cigarettes Champion Athlete and Prize Fighter Series. Series #2; 51 to 100. The Bursch was made in factory 30; the Wilson in Factory 549.
Can anybody identify these cards ( My best guess is circa 1910; T-218?)
Can anyone reproduce here a checklist for Series 1 and Series 2 and any other series' that exist?

Thanks.
RayB69Topps

Virtualizard · November 16, 2003 7:21AM

Ray,

These are T218s. They were produced in 1910. They come in 2 different style backs - Mecca and Hassan. I have a checklist that I believe to be accurate. It includes 154 cards, including some variations. I'll email it to you if you'd like.

I would be very interested in purchasing these if they are for sale. I have the set about 1/2 complete with several PSA graded cards included, but I need both of the cards you have.

I'm surprised nobody has registered a set. I have been planning to after I get some more graded.

JEB.

Here are a couple of graded examples:

sellerman23 · November 16, 2003 8:51AM

I can answer some questions about these cards as well. They are indeed T-218's. Here is a link to a site with a checklist:

Link

I've been buying these for a couple years now and have assembled a complete run of the track and field athletes. They are all I am interested in as I am quite a track nut. Virtualizard, I have an extra Wilson if you need it. I actually have quite a few dupes now that you mention it. I have been meaning to eBay them for a while now.
I only have one graded card (Ray Ewry PSA 5).
I am amazed at how much they look like 1933 Goudeys!
If you look at the pop reports, there are not too many graded examples out there for any of the sports.
I have not seen a registered set probably because not many people grade these cards and I would doubt too many collect all the sports. I only collect the track and field athletes. Many people collect the boxing cards. Some I am sure some collect the swimmers and aviators. There's even a rollerskater in there!
Let me know if you have any more questions or are interested in my dupes.

Dave
sellerman23

RayBShotz · November 16, 2003 9:42AM

Thanks guys. The link was invaluable also.
I am not sure what I will do with these but I am intrigued about collecting this set as my "oddball issue". Also grading these does appeal to me. Yes, they are very Goudey-like.
I noticed on the 2 boxing scan examples that the PSA label says only T-218 Champions. No mention of the year or Mecca. Is it correct to assume these were all manufactured in 1910?
Does anyone have a graded scan of a track & field star? Is the labeling the same?

I noticed like I mentioned before that the T&F stars are in Series 2; 51-100. Does anyone have more info on the series as they relate to the chcklist from oldbaseball.com?

Maybe between the 3 of us we can strike up more interest in a registered set.
RayB69Topps

Virtualizard · November 16, 2003 9:47AM

Dave,

Email me - jeb@virtualizard.com. I would be interested in the Wilson card. I don't have that one.

Ray, as Dave points out, there are several sports included in this set. I am trying to complete the entire set which includes:

Boxers
Track Stars
Aquatics
Billiards
Bowlers
Golfers
Aviators

and yes, 1 Rollerskater

The boxers, track stars, and aquatics can be found easily (most of them at least). The rest rarely surface.

If anyone has any of these for sale or trade, please let me know.

Thanks.

JEB.

Virtualizard · November 16, 2003 9:51AM

Ray,

If you have excel on your computer, I do have a much more user friendly spreadsheet that I can email you that includes PSA POPS (although I haven't updated them recently and some more have been graded

)

JEB.

RayBShotz · November 16, 2003 9:54AM

I didnt notice any bowlers, golfers or billiards on the checklist. Does a complete checklist exist anywhere? I scoured the web pretty good today and it was fruitless.
Looking for total card count and complete checklist.
My email should anyone have it.
aja4rayb@msn.com
Thanks again.
Look forward to talking the nuances of this set once I get acclimated.
RayB69Topps

Virtualizard · November 16, 2003 10:06AM

Ray,

Again, I have a list that I've been working on for about 6 months (I believe it's complete - I haven't seen anything pop up recently that is not on the list). It's in excel. Let me know if you can use it and I'll email it to you. If you don't have excel, I'll send you a text version.

JEB.

sellerman23 · November 16, 2003 10:08AM

As far as scarcity goes, the Abel Kiviat is known to be rare due to the fact he was the first major Jewish track star.
Every once in a while, you will find T-218's on eBay. I have a search bookmarked on my browser. Sometimes, though, people do not know they are called T-218's and they will not come up that way. I have seen them under "Track and Field cards".
My Ewry is encapsulated in a bag and I hate that. If they had a holder that fit it better, I would be more inclined to grade them more.

Here is a scan of the Ewry

sellerman23 · November 16, 2003 10:24AM

Jeb,
Message sent with list.

Dave
sellerman23

RayBShotz · November 16, 2003 8:37PM

JEB - Excel works for me.
Email to aja4rayb@msn.com
Thanks again.
RayB69Topps

sellerman23 · November 17, 2003 1:27AM

I will post scans of the cards available on this board tonight (so as not to overstuff your mailbox)

Dave
sellerman23

sellerman23 · November 17, 2003 10:34AM

Here are scans of what I have available:

Virtualizard · November 17, 2003 11:21AM

Thanks Dave.

I'll be in touch tomorrow. I'm definitely interested in some of these.

In the meantime, here is an upgrade to the PSA 2 Battling Nelson scan I provided earlier. I am always looking for upgrades, and this one was a very pleasant surprise.

JEB.

RayBShotz · November 19, 2003 11:52PM

Guys- Are all of the cards PSA grades of this issue always encapsulated with the plastic bag insert?

Secondly, I'd like to get a set request going for the "Master" checklist of these on the Registry request form but I dont own 3 graded cards yet to get that rolling. JEB or Dave; can either of you initiate this? It would be great if we could get a small group of collectors going on this set.

I won a couple of items on ebay also in the last couple of days and have decided to officially start to work on this as a sideline effort.

JEB - If you could attach that checklist to a email (aja4rayb@msn.com) that would be great. In all the research I've done I still haent stumbled on the definitive checklist. I would suspect that PSA would need this also if the were to list the set in the Registry.

Great pictures by the way guys!
RayBShotz

sellerman23 · November 20, 2003 2:29AM

I only have one graded card. I can lend you the cert # if you like. Did that link I provided earlier not have a complete checklist?
Were you looking for a different format?

The two different encapulation types are the two that have been posted on this thread.

Dave
sellerman23

RayBShotz · November 20, 2003 4:13AM

Thanks Dave. I couldnt get at the link originally. It seems to be working fine now. Picked up that same list from obc.com
Is there a definitive publication that catalogs American cigarette/tobacco issues sports and non-sports inclusive? Pricing? What has been your general consensus on raw commons pricing and are their any cards that attract higher numbers such as the Jack Johnson's perhaps.

Separate subject same topic.

I ran across some of those Mecca Bi-folder baseball cards this week at an antique store. I was blown away by the fact that the dealer took very nice quality 100 year old baseball cards and wrote the price in pencil right on the back of the card! Yikes!
I have seen this before too. It seems that dealers not particular to the nuances of card condition sometimes mark tobacco cards as if they were an old book. (Often book dealers write the price inside the cover in pencil). Of course we know that as careful as you might be to erase or remove the price on a fragile 100 year old card, the chances are you will scuff it and it will retain some evidence of a price being erased. In this case I was looking at a high quality example that was priced at $75.00. Seems almost incredulous that someone would write on something he felt had that type of value.
Funny thing is, he also had some vintage Christmas cards and postcards that all were either tagged or put in a receptacle that held the price. Just fate I guess.

I have kept myself quite entertained for the last week or so tracking info on these...so thanks again for the lowdown.
RayBShotz

Virtualizard · November 20, 2003 10:45AM

Ray,

I sent you an email with the spreadsheet attached on Monday night. Did you not get the email? I'll send it again.

JEB.

Mecca Cigarette Cards Question...Anyone?

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