Fairtraderz wants to know what's wrong.

topstuf · July 19, 2003 4:06AM

They are asking for reasons for slumping sales. I don't know. They are local to me so I can go see the coins. I have purchased from them and I have declined coins from them. They always treat ME right.

You might want to give them some feedback through the link to this auction.

Auction and feedback link

I do not buy ANY moderns. Don't know if that is the reason or not.

wondercoin · July 19, 2003 4:26AM

I just took a look at their auctions which closed in the past week. If my calculations were correct, they received bids on roughly 33/240+ closed auctions (not sure if some of those bids were "reserve not met" as well). The ebay fees alone on those 240+ auctions would likely exceed $500, not to mention the significant manpower to post 240 auctions in the first place, many with scans, etc. I would be quite surprised to hear that these significant costs could even be made up from the 33 auctions which actually received a bid.

If only roughly 13% of ones auctions are even receiving a bid, it is darn tough to make it on ebay, when you factor in listing fees, selling fees and labor costs.

John S. is a nice guy and a sharp businessman. Why would he continue on ebay unless it resulted in a benefit in the end. I also believe he has a great "presence" in the marketplace via coin shows without ebay

Wondercoin

Dog97 · July 19, 2003 4:34AM

Just tell him that the sleazeBay sellers with their AT junk, souped up pictures, over hyped bs descriptions, no returns, restocking fees, & high shipping rates on mediocre average common coins are making it hard times on ALL dealers of <<<COLOR!>>>

toothpuller · July 19, 2003 4:43AM

He prices his coins too high.

gemtone65 · July 19, 2003 4:46AM

Ebay tends to attract people who want to acquire coins through competive auctions. Fairtraderz starts his auctions so high that they are equivalent to a fixed price sale. Moreover, rarely do his coins show up when I do a word search.

ohbaby · July 19, 2003 4:46AM

He's lying...everyone knows the market is booming, nuclear, going to the moon Alice!

Ask reededge.

His prices are too high for many of his less than exciting coins. I think he is also in the "dead zone" of coins at this time. Boring coins priced higher than newbie collectors will pay as well as experienced collectors who know better quality.

I also feel from my conversations with other collectors people are more cautious to buy on ebay given the scams. I for one have not bought anything over $100 on ebay in almost a year. Prior to that I did 90% of all my buying on ebay.

Just my thoughts.

Merc · July 19, 2003 4:58AM

I have bought a few coins from this seller but not in a long time. That was back when all of his auctions opened for $1. Now they all have a high opening bid which is priced too high. Then his coins often are low end for the grade. I can find better coins elsewhere.

goose3 · July 19, 2003 5:09AM

I have run across some of their listings in the past and was going to bid until I saw the s/h charges.
I may be wrong but I am thinking of them.

Rampage · July 19, 2003 5:21AM

Exactly what Merc said.

That is what I told people on this forum before and I will say it over and over again.

They have great coinsand great service, but untill the either bring the prices back down to earth, then I cannot afford there coins.

I look at their stuff every now and then and think of what I would like to buy and then I look at the prices and then I go away.

ElectricEye · July 19, 2003 5:23AM

hmm...overpriced overhyped...good riddance

LouisCamp · July 19, 2003 5:32AM

I have tried to buy from them in the past, put the S/h fees always seem out of wack.

Lou

keets · July 19, 2003 5:37AM

i can only speak for their eBay listings for Jefferson's and echo what's been said already. i say the same about eaglecoin and others, they seemingly run eBay stores by listing with high opening bids and higher than actual shipping costs. that's their perogative but it's not realistically the way that eBay functions.

al h.

KlectorKid · July 19, 2003 5:40AM

$16.50 is BS for shipping. $750 for an Ike thats not even toned very nicely. Not my kind of dealer.

66Tbird · July 19, 2003 5:45AM

The high reserve and S&H has made me remove the bookmark,,,,,, sorry.

legacycoin · July 19, 2003 5:49AM

$16.50 for shipping on that particular Ike might be acceptable if the item is sent registered mail rather than insured mail and is well packaged. That coin is just plain not attractive though.... a candidate for dipping, which I rarely advocate. The toning looks almost artificial.

TWODOGS · July 19, 2003 5:49AM

Every time I see outrageous shipping costs, I figure it's because they have a high return rate and want to at least make a profit on the shipping.

Bikingnut · July 19, 2003 5:53AM

I always thought their shipping costs were a little high.

python1 · July 19, 2003 6:13AM

I wont do thier poll, because they have blocked me, because I voiced my opinion about the cost of thier shipping charges, and I paid for the item, even called them to talk about it, and I thought all was fine, but I guess that is just their attitude, hell they even left me positive feedback!! I would have bought several more coins from them, including one they have up right now, that is how I found out I was blocked in the first place.........so if they want my opinoin, get a thicker skin or drop the shipping charges, go figure. Later.....

WWBillman · July 19, 2003 6:15AM

I to purchased from them long ago but as has already been stated, they auction a lot of ugly low end coins and price them like you would a high end PQ coin. No value there and smart people see that. They really need to bring their pricing back to earth.

ms70 · July 19, 2003 6:18AM

I look at their auctions all the time. The coins they offer always seem to have an issue of some sort.
Super ugly toning, fingerprints, stains, etc. I did buy from them once - a nice D/D Buffalo that was a
keeper. But most (not all) of their stuff has no appeal to me. They were nice to do business with.

The most aggravating thing about them is their endless auctions for PCGS/NGC coin boxes.

NoGvmnt · July 19, 2003 6:44AM

Well, I just perused their auctions and my first concern was that they have unusually high starting prices on their items, but then, on their (exageration city) toned pieces, they add another rediculous amount to their already high starting price!!!

With what seems like an apparent "screw-the-novice-collector" type attitude, maybe it would be best for all concerned if they do close their doors. Just my humble opinion, Jim

Fairlaneman · July 19, 2003 7:10AM

Have bought from them before and some coins were okay and some were below par. This did not really bother me much. What did bother me was the closeing of a Auction early about a year ago on a coin that was really wanted when many bidders had bid, myself included. Then thier pictures jusy went to hell also. These two items have turned me into a looker and thats about all.

Shipping charges......Hmmm seems high when it use to be reasonable.

Ken

JR · July 19, 2003 7:16AM

Same story here. When they started opening their "auctions" at retail, I deleted the bookmark.

(edited to add): Plus the fact that I have to pay them sales tax (I'm in California too), and their high shipping charges, the whole thing became a real non-starter for me.

DennisH · July 19, 2003 9:14AM

Personally, I never bid on his coins because:

1. No descriptions that speak to me as a knowledgeable collector; i.e. particulars about the strike, lustre, marks and overall eye appeal. This is important to me, and people who take the time to do it come across to me as being as much more professional and credible than those who don't.

2. Based upon the few coins that sell, his reserves seem to be set above Grey Sheet ask.

3. Based upon the OK images and zero description, it's easy to interpret the quality of his coins as mediocre at best.

4. Being a California resident, I'm penalized by having to pay sales tax for coins costing less than $1000.

When I add up all these negatives, it's just far too easy for me to keep scrolling on down to the next auction.

-- Dennis

GAT · July 19, 2003 9:40AM

Besides all the other reasons given, I object to their slow image server. I am not going to wait 5 minutes for a picture to download.

goose3 · July 19, 2003 9:46AM

16.50 is not acceptable at all for shipping on a 750.00 coin.

I'm not current on registered mail but I believe you can ship probably a several thousand dollar coin for that amount.

roadrunner · July 19, 2003 1:11PM

Too expensive and of average quality at best. There are other dealers I can buy solid quality from at earthly prices. As soon as I see Fairtraderz is the seller, I skip to the next lot of my search.

roadrunner

MrMoo · July 19, 2003 1:15PM

I bought from them once a Lincoln cent and the pic looked fairly nice. I guess it was one of those stock photos, it was cheap around $15 I think. Because when the coin arived it was all spotted. They refunded my money with no hassle. but I don't want to do business where I don't know what I am getting.

Russ · July 19, 2003 1:19PM

I'm not sure that declaring to the world that they're about to close their doors is the smartest business strategy in their effort to increase revenues and profits in an attempt prevent that from happening. That declaration is unlikely to instill much confidence in their potential customers.

Russ, NCNE

Typetone · July 19, 2003 1:56PM

I spot checked about 20 of their auctions for coins that I know something about. In general the prices were high for what appeared to be average quality pieces. Also fixed price stuff is not going to generate auction type action. They just have an ebay store. That's fine, but selling 35 pieces out of a few hundred is about all you would expect.

Greg

Oldtrader3 · July 19, 2003 2:06PM

I bought a few certified coins from them and the coins always had problems, many of these problems did not show up in their E-Bay scans, which were, in my estimation, a little, shall we say, optimistic. Most were lower end coins for grade or had problems. I could not believe these coins made the grade for color, luster or marks. These were all sold at high end prices of course. I stopped doing business with them.

I don't know if they just did not grade their coins, or went strictly by Cert. Grade. The guy that I dealt with on the phone did not know a lot about coins either. I smelled to me like a "Boiler Room" operation.

Dave99B · July 19, 2003 2:32PM

I've purchased numerous coins from these guys. 95% or more were nice coins. But lately, they have been going to a reserve/starting price format; and I've lost interest. I hope they go back to the N/R format soon. They carry some interesting material.

Dave

baccaruda · July 19, 2003 3:46PM

I accidentally bid on one of their auctions before I noticed shipping was $6.50 for a $12 slab. I now avoid that name so I'll never make that mistake again. Interesting that they can't figure out why sales are declining in an auction where they're asking $750 for a $40 coin.

greghansen · July 19, 2003 9:10PM

Isn't July seasonaly the slowest month for EBAY sales anyway? Some of the 'big dog' EBAY sellers have previously posted the best/worst months to sell coins on EBAY from their years of experience. I didn't pay that much attention since I don't do it for a living, but I am sure there are seasonal trends and I'm pretty sure July was one of the doggy months.

cointagious · July 19, 2003 10:38PM

<< <i>16.50 is not acceptable at all for shipping on a 750.00 coin. >>

i just ran a 6 oz $750. value registered package (not unresonable weight because of registered mail packing guidelines) thru the usps calulator and it came to $11.22. another $1 to $2 for material & time would not be unreasonable but thet are a bit beyond that.

goose3 · July 19, 2003 10:57PM

what would that same coin cost "Registered"??

flaminio · July 19, 2003 11:00PM

High shipping costs don't bother me one bit. I just adjust my bid price accordingly.

What does bug me, however, would be paying $800 for an ugly-ass Ike. Not gonna pull the trigger on that one...

bigbadchad777 · July 19, 2003 11:20PM

I have had several purchased from them in the past. No problems with me. They do need to drop their prices now.

dpoole · July 19, 2003 11:23PM

I've purchased numerous coins from these guys. 95% or more were nice coins. But lately, they have been going to a reserve/starting price format; and I've lost interest. I hope they go back to the N/R format soon. They carry some interesting material.

DaveB's comment matches my experience with them.

I agree summer's usually a lag time on Ebay, but well-priced coins on Ebay still seem to be moving well in this market, and get lots of looks. I relaly think the problem is their apparent switch to trying to sell their coins with high starting prices, rather than allowing real auctions. A number of dealers seem to be doing this (.e.g, Washington Rare Coins). They apparently are content to leave many of their auctions without bids, taking the occasional score as compensation enough.

I'm not sure why Fairtraderz is having trouble with figuring out the problem: higher prices/costs to the bidders mean lower demand.

My own (limited) experience as a seller is that you start the auctions low, even for the good stuff. Buyers find them, and attention/numbers of bids generate further looks and action. I've found that the high activity usually stimulates realistic market reactions and price levels. Only rarely (so far) have I lost badly.

Gilbert · July 20, 2003 1:25AM

I too find that the coins I am interested in (Morgan varieties) are way overpriced. They seem to have fallen into the mentality that if a coin is attributed with a VAM number, it has to worthy of a premium.

What really caused me to stop looking at their inventory was a couple of things, all of which remains their perogative; just didn't instill much desire in me to do business:

1. Became aware of this dealer/seller in this forum (Right or wrong, I sorta' expect a little leeway from forum members)

2. I bid fairly close to retail (their asking price) for a very common silver dollar, but didn't meet the reserve - they wouldn't budge on the price because "they had X amount of money in the coin." I'm sorry, but it is not my intention NOR SHOULD I BE EXPECTED to pay for someone else's mistake (paying premium money for a common coin)

3. A VAM number does not automatically translate into a premium. EVERY MORGAN DOLLAR has a VAM number.

4. The sometimes less than stellar images and/or description(s), the self proclaimed "rarity" and the ocassional experiences related in the forum (Remember the penciled in 53-S FBL, it may have been a different year, but the image didn't appear to be FBL and one shouldn't have to spend four figures to find out IF the coin is as described - get it designated)

But, those are my issues, and it seems like many others too - I guess a link to this thread may provide feedback, but, it won't be anything new. I'm pretty sure the issue of why and why not Fairtraderz is or isn't a decent avenue for acquisitions had been discussed here before.

paigowjohnny · July 20, 2003 5:15AM

OUTRAGEOUS shipping and handling...and if I recall he was doing a lot off "not so desirable" slabbing company slabs, at least for a while.

mercurynut · July 20, 2003 8:47AM

I had a lot of good experiences with them and then BAM their opening bids were at retail or above and the s/h cost skyrocketed.

michael · July 20, 2003 5:26PM

venue/marketing and timing

riverman · December 22, 2004 11:33AM

ttt

GAT · December 22, 2004 11:58AM

I always hit the back button when I land on one of their auctions for the following reasons.

1. I am not waiting 10 minutes for their slow server to download a picture.

2. I know there will be a high starting price and reserve.

3. High shipping cost.

4. There will be some highly questionable slabs

All in all it's a waste of my time to look at their auctions.