Was a Mistake Made ?

Fairlaneman

True situation that happened two days ago. I went up to just shoot the breeze with a dealer I trust and really like. Before going I knew he had no coins, Merc Dimes, that i needed. While talking he commented that he knew I did not like Morgan or Peace dollars. Then he went to his stash and flipped this 1935S peace Dollar at me and said take a look. This coin was the cleanest dollar I have ever seen period. Not a mark anywhere. Then I looked at the grade on the slab. MS65 it said. Honestly the coin is better and both of us agreed to this. Anyway the dealer said the coin is yours for $1000. I looked at him and said I have no idea what it is worth. He fired right back it is at $950 ask. Also this was a one time offer.

Now here is the question. Did I really goof up by not taking this pristine coin ? I'm not asking this because of the upgrade potential but because the coin was just plain nice. My other thought is that maybe he will never offer another coin like this because of my refusal of the dollar. Another thought is that good relations with dealers are hard to establish. Did I sour this relationship somewhat in your opinion ? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I think the Dealer is trying to broaden my collecting desires as the last two times he has brought up a series that I do not collect. Does this make any sense to anyone else or has it also happened to you ?

Thanks Much.
Ken

Dog97

He really wasn't trying to do you a favor. He was trying to get rid of a slow moving coin, in other words he was acting like a dealer. He didn't offer you any "special price" and if he thought it was that great of a coin he would try to upgrade it instead of selling it to you because that model triples in price @ 66.

relayer

Since it already lost 5% in value in a matter of seconds, it might be worthless by the time you got it home.

LegendSteve

I agree with Dog's assessment. That dealer was trying to dump tired inventory on you. If he was really trying to do you a favor, then he'd have offered the coin to you at somewhere between bid and ask, or at ask.

If the coin was really so nice, then certainly he could've found a dealer to whom to wholesale the coin to at ask. A '34S is a key date, and there are many dealers looking for upgrade or PQ specimens of that date!

Steve

prooflike

You did the right thing, you collect dimes, not dollars.

braddick

A couple points being missed here, I think, is Ken looked at the coin and also believed it was PQ for the grade and then-some. This is also a Dealer with a friendly and professional relationship with Ken.

Could simply be the Dealer, in a fit of casual behavior, offered Ken a beautiful coin- close to the next grade- at a great price.

That's what I got out of Ken's story.

Merc

Well the 1935-S in MS65 is a nice coin. Who graded it? I'd like it, but I collect Peace dollars as well as Mercury dimes. That dealer sounds anoying. He knew you didn't collect Peace dollars then he tried a hard sell on a rare date high grade one. Don't worry about hurting his feeling by not buying. He should not offer coins that you do not intend to buy. He soured the relationship by pushing a coin on you.

mdwoods

I agree with Pat. On super PQ coins, throw away the book.

dragon

It is impossible to comment CORRECTLY on a situation like this without first seeing the coin and just how PQ it was for the grade. It could have been a superb just miss MS66 piece and a real bargain, or just a so-so coin and overpriced. Since you are not well versed in this series, you wouldn't really know for sure, and probably did well to pass on it IMO.

Many dealers that 'rip' a really nice piece at a show will sometimes offer it to a good client at a small markup rather than playing the upgrade game, as cash flow is also important to many dealers.

Fairlaneman

From the replys let me add something. The coin is going back into a grading service. The dealer is somewhat of a collector and does not show his good stuff to everyone. My personal assement is that he was offering a very nice coin to me at a reasonable price reguardless if it would upgrade or not. I think if he really wanted to he could sell the coin at anytime.

This was just a situation that has not happened to me at any other time. I have know the dealer for over 20 years and have been a customer of his for this period.

Ken

Fairlaneman

Dragon you hit something right on the head. This coin was bought in a MS64 holder and then upgraded to the 65 holder. He told me this up front so there was no deception with the amount of money he had into the coin. Even though I do not know the Series at all I still think the coin is going to see a higher number in the future. If it does the dealer will for sure let me know. Trust me on this as we have had a couple of grading differences in the past and in good fun they are always remembered.

Ken

keets

man, i love playing devils advocate!! especially when it can be a case of a positive outcome. perhaps the guy was doing you a good turn. perhaps you're a customer he's learned to trust and really like. if you spend money in his shop it could just be his way of showing appreciation.

my local dealer, i guy i like and trust, will call me when he gets something in that is in my areas of collecting. he'll tell me when i visit what he has new or he'll show me if i ask. it's not all touchy-feely-help-me-out stuff, he's in business to turn over stock and make a living. so from that position, he's showing me stuff he thinks i'll buy and maybe not showing me stuff that he'll be letting another of his better customers see first. it's all part of the business from my lofty perch.

there have been times such as you described where my dealer will say something such as "this is a super coin" and he'll show me a winner that i pass on. more than a few times i've asked him a day or a week later about the coin and it'll be gone. his standard answer is usually something along the lines of i told you so...........

i don't think you spoiled any working relationship with this guy. he may hesitate showing you stuff, he may have been trying to move stock, it may be water off a ducks back. assuming your story to be accurate, you were cordial and courteous, you just didn't buy the coin. my hunch is that you're just a good guy who doesn't want to louse up what it took time to build. please keep us informed about your next visit and his tempermant.

al h.

mdwoods

Keets makes some good points. It sounds like you have a great relationship with this dealer, especially if you can argue grades and laugh about it. Mitch recently offered me a 63D Franklin in 66FBL. I thought about it and said no. He wrote back "Mark You DO want this coin". I trusted him enough to know that it must be special, and it is. The coin would go for more in auction than I paid for it, IMO, and is surely one of the prettiest 63 D Frankies out there. Mark.

P.S. If you really didn't want the coin, you didn't make a mistake. A blazing proof Seated Half would do little for me, to others, it would be Nirvana.

Dog97

Maybe he was the numismatic Santa Clause that we don't believe in.
I changed my mind, your dealer sounds like a great guy and you should go back and buy the coin before he gets pissed off at you & bans you from his shop. Apoligize profusely and get down on your knees so he will know you are sincere for offending him for turning down his generous offer.

mdwoods

Finally, a realistic answer from Dog97.

ER

Agree with the grumpy old guy, a.k.a., Dog97.

foodude

No mistake, one of the keys to succesful coin collectoring is knowledge. If you are put in a position where you you need to spend significant money (and this is a relative thing, depending on your economic situtation), don't do it, particularly with a dealer, since chances are they have superior knowledge of the situation. Let me put this another way, and hopefully you've been to Las Vegas. If you don't know how to gamble then put a couple bucks in a slot machine or play a couple of hands at the $5 blackjack table. If you win great, if you lose, well you had some fun, its time to stop and go to a show. If you don't know what you are doing, and like most of us, losing a few hundred bucks is a real bummber, then don't play the $100 minimum craps table. Your loss will be in the tousands of dollars before you know it.

HJowever, if you believe you have the knowlege (or superior knowledge, and KNOW it is a good deal then good for it; cause then you are not really gambling, or at least the odds are in your favor- just don't gamble more than you can afford to lose.

stman

Not to knock the author of this thread.... but what has pricing and collecting come to. Dealer has maybe a coin graded the way it shoiuld be or strong for the grade at a decent price (no steal) and we have to wonder whether his feelings were hurt because we're not interested? Now I understand the part of importance for him to offer you good coins in the future, but to spend 1K on something you don't want is crazy.

Honestly, if it were me I'd be upset he put our business relationship on the spot by knowing it would be hard to say no. I'd probably tell him to take a flying #$$#@. But hey that's just me.

IrishMike

Ken there is no way to be certain what the dealer was thinking or doing. I have a dealer and friend, at least I consider him a friend who does this to me all the time. He knows what I collect, but he also will whip out a PQ coin and offer it to me at a good price. I have spent thousands of dollars over the years with him, been to out of town shows with him and his wife and he is always sending me postcards about where he will be next, what coins he picked up etc. Quite frankly sometimes he overprices coins to me and sometimes underprices coins to me. Like someone said he has more knowledge than you on Peace Dollars. However this doesn't mean he was trying to take advantage of you. He might now be Santa, but he could be a friend. You are in the best position to judge this.

I also believe that you should stay away from thousand dollar coins if this not a series you know well and don't collect. Just maybe this is not a situation that has a right or wrong answer. At least he didn't tell you that you could have it at a silent auction plus 5%. I would let this situation go, but keep it in the back of my mind.

ksteelheader

I have 2 dealers that I do regular business with. I've dealt with dealer #1 for many years. Dealer #2 is a fellow that I have known for a few years, having orginally met him at dealer #1's place of business.
Both of those dealers, knowing that I will make an appearance at least once each week, put aside a lot of the coins they feel I might have an interest in buying. Even though I probably only end up buying only a very low percentage of those coins they put aside, they continue to put them aside. This is what a good dealer to customer relationship is all about....Ken

jdimmick

You did the right thing, especially if you dont need it. Its a slow mover.
Also the new May 9, 03 CDN shows a decrease to 825.00bid/925.00 ask with - indicator?

So if you bought it to sell , you already stand a chance of losing an additional 30.00?

Conder101

Possibly he is trying to broaden your horizons, not to mention if he can get you hooked with one really nice and tougher piece he may have a good chance at selling you the rest of the set as well! ("Well you've already got one of the tougher pieces, and they're aren't that many more coins in the set.")