Poll on certification of currated coins

Outhaul

Should curration be indicated on the holder? Keep in mind, curration could be anything from fingerprint removal to repair of a hit, rim nick, etc.

nwcs

I'm for documentation on regular, curated, and doctored coins. I'd love to see labels like:

PCGS MS-62
RIM NICK, LT STAPLE SCRATCH

Of course, these same things can be controvertial simply because not all damage is able to be attributed correctly. And if curated coins are labeled, I think the same type of labeling should apply to collectors curating and having the coins certified.

PTVETTER

Very interesting so far

Things that may be hidden by the slab such as a rim nick should be indicated!

Dimetime

Yes, I would like to see coins slabbed even if they've been cleaned. We all see lots of body bags for "cleaning" even though the coin is great. I would like to have them labeled like "MS63 Cleaned /Authentic" at least we'd know it a real coin. JMO

coinguy1

My vote would be no, because there will always be other/certain coins which have been "curated", but which the grading companies will not be certain of, though they might strongly suspect it.

If those coins that are KNOWN to have been "curated" are so designated and those that are not KNOWN are not so noted, people will have a false sense of security about coins in the latter group.

In other words, if two coins are curated, but only one of them is known by the grading company to have been so, and that one is noted on the grading label, some people will mistakenly think that the coin which is not noted as having been "curated" is original.

I think the above situation would actually be less desirable than the one we have now, where people at least wonder about/question any coin which appears to have been "curated".

That said, I don't claim to know that my view is the "right" or "better" one - only that the above is my personal opinion.

Outhaul

What precipitated this poll was a discussion I had with a couple of fellow collectors at work. You'll notice that I haven't given my opinion yet, as I am on the fence with this. Before I form my opinion I'd like to see what the more seasoned collectors and professionals have to say. So far, I've learned quite a bit in speaking with fellow collectors and dealers alike as well as the response to this thread.

Neil: My personal spin on it is that bodybags should be done away with. The customer is paying for the service to grade their coin, not toss it in a two-cent plastic bag. I feel all damaged/altered coins should be net graded as ANACS does.

Mark: As always, you make a strong and valid point, as some currations are imperceptible. I guess that would not be fair to the owner of the coin that shows signs of repair.

Curration is still, nonetheless, the alteration of a coin. Having said that, would it not be equally unfair to the purchaser of such a certified coin? Not knowing that he/she just bought a previously altered/currated coin? Are you not denying them the opportunity to make an informed choice?


Cheers,

Bob

Julian

I voted no, but I do not submit coins for encapsulation. I think that it would be important to define "curated". Repaired coins, in my opinion, are not curated, they are repaired. Coins that have been improved with only the use of a liquid could be defined as curated. If there is any abrasive rubbing or any hard instrument used, they cannot be classified as curated. Definition is critical for this discussion.

dorkkarl

<< <i>Keep in mind, curration could be anything from fingerprint removal to repair of a hit, rim nick, etc. >>

sentiments echoed. repair of a hit, rim nick, etc, is NOT curation, it is doctoring. but i still vehemently disagree w/ julian, ie i think that dipping a coin in acidic solution is NOT curating, it is also doctoring

K S

Steve27

Mention of "repair of a hit, rim nick, etc." would not be needed on the holder, because it would get a body-bag from PCGS.

Curation deals with toning and other surface problems which can be removed by soaking or dipping in one or several different solutions. These cannot be detected by graders and thus require no labeling on the slab.

Nysoto

It would be interesting to see the results of how the dealers voted, and how the collectors voted. Who is more important, the customer or the dealer?

As a collector I voted yes, honest disclosure of the coins history is important. A few dealers, like Sheridan Downey, will disclose if a coin has been dipped, put in a kraft envelope, or any other attempt to alter, doctor, or AT a coin. This has given him great respect as a dealer.

Gilbert

The customer is paying for the service to grade their coin, not toss it in a two-cent plastic bag.

Just wanted to point out that grading isn't the only service you get when submitting to PCGS/NGC/ANACs. Along with that service come certain guarantees, which are inherent with encapsulation. They are going to have to "turn down" certain coins which don't meet the criteria of the guarantee.

Outhaul

Gilbert,

I understand what you're saying, but you're not guaranteeing anything but what you see. If a coin has altered surfaces, AT, damage, etc. they don't have to net grade as ANACS does, just no-grade the coin and holder it as such annotating the problem on the label. Just a thought.

prooflike

I'm thinking along the same line as coinguy1, some coins that have been well curated won;t be labelled as such and would be considered as 'original.'

The system will not work.

michael

i guess it is done now in a roundabout way

if a coin is dipped to remove some light toning and properly rinsed say a modern coin then this coin is not curated to me and market acceptable

if a coin like an ss central america coin is curated to the point where all the copper ions are removed from the surface of the coin in a sense making the coin with a top layer of pure 24k gold and the coin looks unnatural as this coin would never look like this even if newly made from the mint then it should not be certified as such by the (grading) pricing services

and then there are the inbetween cases that have to be subjectively accessed by humans using current market acceptable standards and subjective grading standards

or if a coin has been "curated" to the point where it is seen clearly by most people in the coin marketplace then it shuold not be certified

i guess has always been and will always be a subjective matter and with the winds of market acceptance always on a fluid plain this will always be in a state of dlux so to speak

i would not personally put curated or damaged on the holders

either certify it and guarantee your grade/coin or whatever or do not slab it

and let the buyers buy the coin with some sort of starting point with the slab

sincerely michael

dorkkarl

ttt