Hairlined 19th Century proofs?

berylcoin

I've heard a number of board members refer to "light hairlining" or a "small patch of hairlines" as the grade limiting factor on various 19th century proofs. Given the prevalence of coin cleaning in the past, is light hairlining on these coins more likely caused by cleaning, mishandling or none of the above?

BC

CLASSICS

<< <i>I've heard a number of board members refer to "light hairlining" or a "small patch of hairlines" as the grade limiting factor on various 19th century proofs. Given the prevalence of coin cleaning in the past, is light hairlining on these coins more likely caused by cleaning, mishandling or none of the above?

BC >>

................back then collectors would place thier coins into trays, lined with some type of cloth. if they slid around, that would cause hairlines to appear on the coin........later they used albums , the coin would be place into a page, and a plastic slide would then be inserted into the page to cover the coins...sometimes if the coin wasnt inserted deep enough into the page, the plastic would come in contact with the coin, and this could cause hairlines to appear.......and yes inproper cleaning could also cause hairlines.........hope this helps.

lordmarcovan

Classics beat me to the answer:



<< <i>................back then collectors would place thier coins into trays, lined with some type of cloth. if they slid around, that would cause hairlines to appear on the coin.. >>



Generally, this is referred to as cabinet friction, because coin collections were often kept in cabinets with drawers, similar to the cloth-lined trays mentioned above.



<< <i>later they used albums , the coin would be place into a page, and a plastic slide would then be inserted into the page to cover the coins...sometimes if the coin wasnt inserted deep enough into the page, the plastic would come in contact with the coin, and this could cause hairlines to appear....... >>



This phenomenon is generally called slide marks, as the hairlines are caused by the plastic slides in the album. It's not a good idea to put proof coins in such an album. Even a tiny speck of dust can be abrasive if it's slid across the delicate surfaces of a proof coin.

All in all, some hairlines are to be expected on 19th century proof coins, because of the way they were handled and stored over the years. As long as the hairlines are not the kind caused by harsh cleaning or polishing, and are not too severe, they're nothing to get upset about. Kinda goes with the territory, if you know what I mean.

berylcoin

It would seem more natural for friction from storage to appear on the highest points. Does cabinet friction generally show in the fields or on the devices?

BC

coinguy1

berylcoin, you asked:

<< <i>Does cabinet friction generally show in the fields or on the devices? >>



"Cabinebt friction/rub" typically appears on the devices (central design elements), while "hairlines" are most likely to be in the fields.

michael

for me usually the hiarlines are in the fields on the obverse in patches and this is caused by improper cleaning

usually on lets say for example proof seated quarters the hairlines patches of hairlines just the way they appear and the overall look of them how deep they are etc. etc. are usually for the most part in the open fields of the coin at 3 pm and also 9 pm on the obverse and this is most always again caused by cleaning of the coin ie. rubbing the coin with a cloth that causes these hairlines either from drying the coin or whatever

in my limited experience they seem to be most all the same type in all the same places

caused by the way the coin was made they seem to mark up the open fields on the obverse of the coin to the immdeiate right and left of miss liberty and much less on the reverse because of less open fields

now this is just a super shorrt comment on seated lib proofs and one aspect of it i could write volumes and volumes just on this about coin type in this format proof

and i could write libraries of books on all the proof coinage of the 19 century from my experiences with it

i guess i would need to see a specific 19 century proof coin and then i could tell you specifically what i think about it based on its overall look hairlines toning etc etc

it all depends but i will tell you this if you know what you are looking at and what you are looking for you can tell just based on the overall look of the coin exactely where it has been and what was done to it over the years even where it was stored and who even might had sold it years ago

as different dealers handled different types hoards of coins and also did different things to different types of coins to get them to sell beeter etc. it is really a facinating game

but all in all if you know what you are looking at with any 19 century proof coin juat the way the coin looks can tell you where this coin has been and what has been done to it

IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT but that is the crux the key to it!

a great thread

sincerely michael

berylcoin

Where's your book Micheal?! I'm waiting for it! Seriously, thanks for the insights as always.

BC

dorkkarl

much of the hairlining was also caused by inadvertent cleaning. back in the days when the coins would be displayed in cabinet of some wealthy collector, the maid would come long, say once a week, with her feather duster & give the coins a good once-over. this is why i say there is too much paranoia over "cleaned" 18th & 19th century coins. a large portion of it was "inadvertent" cleaning. proofs, in particular, were subject to this situation (since obviously, they were the coins most often collected at the time)

K S