Kaz..I am sure I will not be the first, and hopefully not the last. to say Thank You so much for the time and effort you put into informing us all of the Accugrade Rip Off...It may not mean much, but from me to you.. Thanks. Your doing as much for this hobby as anyone I caqn think of.. Cheers
Does anyone else that has read all the transcipts so far see that Diane is trying to point out facts that really don't make sense? She was trying to point attention away from the facts that were presented. The best example is the Larry Whitlow thing. Alan Hager grabbed a fake 16-d dime from Larry and broke it out of the ACG holder without his consent.
The ANA has gained more creditability since the Hagers quit the ANA.
Here's all you need to know (from Larry Whitlow about his first ACG purchase) and Ms. Hager did not dispute it: Sorry cut and paste did not work out ... at any rate, it's a classic if you read Whitlow's testimony...
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Thanks everyone. It has been my pleasure, because now everyone who wasn't at the hearing can see how badly Hager and ACG was buried by overwhelming evidence of the fraud they represent. If they were a legitimate company, would this have occured? (This is what RGL was trying to paste):
STUPPLER: Hi, Larry. It's Barry Stuppler. We're here at the ANA hearing and I wanted you to share your experience with Accugrade in regard to that 16-D dime.
WHITLOW: I will be very happy to. I was at a coin show in Baltimore, approximately a year ago. Somebody approached me and offered to sell me a 1916-D dime. I believe it was graded AU-50, and I bought the coin. The coin was priced at a fair market. I paid something like $3500 for it. And I paid the man. In fact, the fellow wanted cash. He said he was a collector and I got identification and wrote him a check and had him endorse the check to me and so I cashed the check for him. A little while later I looked at the coin closely. When I bought it I didn't think I had anything to worry about because I just glanced at it because it was in an Accugrade holder, so I just assumed that it was going to be real. I showed it to somebody else and I questioned it and when I looked, put a glass on and looked, I realized the coin was bad also. So I walked the coin over to Alan Hager who was at the show and I said, "Alan, take a look at this." And I handed him the coin and he just looked at it for like 3 or 4 seconds, turned his back on me, took a couple of steps over and I heard plastic crack, and the next thing you know, he's handing me the coin back out of the holder. I said, "You can't do that." I don't remember what his response was, but I ended up going over and getting the fellow that runs the show, Ed Kuzmere, and explained to him what happened and we went back and Alan ended up agreeing to paying me the money that I had paid for the coin which I did get. It took me as I recall, probably a month or so or three or four weeks to get the money, but I did get my money back. But what he did was totally totally unethical to take my coin and my property and crack it out of the holder like that. That's pretty much it in a nutshell.
Sorry about that, my entire site has been down now for 40 minutes. I have never had an outage last more than 12 minutes in the past. Coincidence? I won't know until I can log into the site control and read the log files, but I find it very interesting to have happen ninety minutes after I announce they have been added.
Jeremy, I pulled the guestbook some time ago because it was being abused. Unfortunately, under the circumstances, I don't see being able to put it back in the near future.
With the exception of one piece, the slabs that Stuppler was using to show the ACG overgrading were Photoslabs and from the description photoslabs from 1984 - 85. As Mrs Hagar states the photoslabs are not graded using the same standards as the ANA or PCGS standards and they DO NOT use MS or Mint State on them.
Frankly the more I'm reading of these transcrpts the more in aggreement I am of the ANA decision.
I also find some credibility problems with Larry Whitlow's testimony.
Conder, Barry Stuppler made one mistake - and that was telling the rest of us that he had enough ACG examples. If I had known he was going to use photo slabs, I alone could have provided over two dozen of the new, small slabs that say "MS" that are just as bad as the photo slabs he used.
Please explain why you find Larry Whitlow lacking in credibility.
Comments
<< <i>HAGER: Are you aware that these coins have not been graded by MS grading standards? >>
Yeah, everybody is. As Anne Richards would say, this one is a taco short of a combination plate.
Russ, NCNE
The ANA has gained more creditability since the Hagers quit the ANA.
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The Ludlow Brilliant Collection (1938-64)
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
STUPPLER: Hi, Larry. It's Barry Stuppler. We're here at the ANA hearing and I wanted you to share your experience with Accugrade in regard to that 16-D dime.
WHITLOW: I will be very happy to. I was at a coin show in Baltimore, approximately a year ago. Somebody approached me and offered to sell me a 1916-D dime. I believe it was graded AU-50, and I bought the coin. The coin was priced at a fair market. I paid something like $3500 for it. And I paid the man. In fact, the fellow wanted cash. He said he was a collector and I got identification and wrote him a check and had him endorse the check to me and so I cashed the check for him. A little while later I looked at the coin closely. When I bought it I didn't think I had anything to worry about because I just glanced at it because it was in an Accugrade holder, so I just assumed that it was going to be real. I showed it to somebody else and I questioned it and when I looked, put a glass on and looked, I realized the coin was bad also. So I walked the coin over to Alan Hager who was at the show and I said, "Alan, take a look at this." And I handed him the coin and he just looked at it for like 3 or 4 seconds, turned his back on me, took a couple of steps over and I heard plastic crack, and the next thing you know, he's handing me the coin back out of the holder. I said, "You can't do that." I don't remember what his response was, but I ended up going over and getting the fellow that runs the show, Ed Kuzmere, and explained to him what happened and we went back and Alan ended up agreeing to paying me the money that I had paid for the coin which I did get. It took me as I recall, probably a month or so or three or four weeks to get the money, but I did get my money back. But what he did was totally totally unethical to take my coin and my property and crack it out of the holder like that. That's pretty much it in a nutshell.
Where'd your guestbook go?
09/07/2006
Come on over ... to The Dark Side!
example
CIPOLETTI: Yes.
ROHAN: OK. MS is not a grading standard. Mint state describes a state of preservation for a coin. It is not a grading standard.
HAGER: Excuse me?
I think that pretty much sums it all up. Apparently, Ms. Hager doesn't know what MS means.
Pennies make dollars, and dollars make slabs!
....inflation must be kicking in again this dollar says spend by Dec. 31 2004!
Erik
Pennies make dollars, and dollars make slabs!
....inflation must be kicking in again this dollar says spend by Dec. 31 2004!
Erik
With the exception of one piece, the slabs that Stuppler was using to show the ACG overgrading were Photoslabs and from the description photoslabs from 1984 - 85. As Mrs Hagar states the photoslabs are not graded using the same standards as the ANA or PCGS standards and they DO NOT use MS or Mint State on them.
Frankly the more I'm reading of these transcrpts the more in aggreement I am of the ANA decision.
I also find some credibility problems with Larry Whitlow's testimony.
Please explain why you find Larry Whitlow lacking in credibility.